• Welcome to The Truck Stop! We see you haven't REGISTERED yet.

    Your truck knowledge is missing!
    • Registration is FREE , all we need is your birthday and email. (We don't share ANY data with ANYONE)
    • We have tons of knowledge here for your diesel truck!
    • Post your own topics and reply to existing threads to help others out!
    • NO ADS! The site is fully functional and ad free!
    CLICK HERE TO REGISTER!

    Problems registering? Click here to contact us!

    Already registered, but need a PASSWORD RESET? CLICK HERE TO RESET YOUR PASSWORD!

new ip/new injectors...no start

A

adamhammer

New Member
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
Location
Traverse City, MI
Hi,

just got my truck back together(had it apart 2 months). spent 14 hrs today doing final bolt-up and trying to start the truck. I've followed procedures to bleed the filter, bleed the fuel drain line, and crack the injector lines while cranking to get rid of as much air. the only thing I did not do was remove the glow plugs. I am getting fuel at the lines(5 of 8 that I could crack open). 3 hours later still no start. The PMD is 5k miles old, relocated to the top of the intake, this was done by the previous owner. I bought the truck with a diagnosed IP overrev problem. I noticed the pmd was rather warm while trying to start, do these generate heat?. I've cleaned all grounds and glow plug module connections. I even tried some wd-40 to see if that would kick something off, but no luck. any ideas? It would be great if someone was available sunday afternoon to help troubleshoot over the phone.

Thanks,


Adam
 
What year is the truck?

Yes, the PMD does get hot. Nature of the beast.

Was it running before you changed the IP and injectors?

If the IP isn't timed correctly, you can get a no start condition.

Make sure it's installed "straight up", which should get you close enough to start.

This is done by making sure the fuel shut off solenoid is vertical. A few millimeters can be the difference between , running, running like crap or not running at all.

Then you can either command TDCO to get it dialed in or do the KO-KO procedure depending on if you're OBDI or OBDII.

You need bi directional scanner to command OBDI, OBDII will do it with a Key on - key off procedure but you'll need a scanner to read the value if you want to know where you are.

If all this is good, I'll put my money on there still being too much air in the system.

Once you get it running, make sure you relocate the PMD out of the engine bay on a good sized heat sink. That's just for long term survivability and not your current problem (unless it's already fried).

Just an FYI; some early flight systems replacement PMD's gave a throttle run away failure condition.......
 
the truck started for a brief moment when I purchased it, obviously the run-away at start-up required immediate shut down. The truck is a 95 k2500, Im a bit baffled that this took 3hrs to try and bleed with minor sputters. I may try the glow plug removal just to keep the starter from getting hot and the "back-presssure" off the injectors. There's no brand name on the PMD, it's black. i wouldn't be surprised if it was the cheapest option to buy at the time. (I wish I had a spare) I was pretty diligent to match the lineup of the old IP to the new IP. By eyballing the center of the bolt and measuring with a scale to the edge of the hole, I was able to mark the upper bolt centerline, and align it in the truck. When you say "vertical" on the solenoid, is this something I need to put a torpedo level on or just eyeball? I never tried moving it to the left or right maybe this is my next attempt
 
Don't crank it more then 25 sec at a time & allow for the starter to cool at least a minute 2 would be better between.

Cranking speed is needed for any diesel, if it's cranking slow no go.

Have you verified the FOS is open or better yet just remove the plunger. On a 95 I would also run temporary power to the lift pump while cranking. It will keep the pump on and help push air from the FM up to the IP.

The other trick I learned here from Jim Jafair is to plug in a hair dryer and stick that in the Air Box or directly into the turbo inlet.

Plug the block heater in also, heat is yr friend here.

Light amounts of wd 40 or even a gas socked rag (fumes ONLY) in front of the turbo (HOLDING THE RAG) inlet should help it light.

Are the Glow plugs getting hot?

HTH's

Do not hook up a high powered BOOST charger while cranking or with the ignition on, it will cook the glow plugs or something else...don't ask me how I know!
 
WD-40 or other starting fluid will do just what the sticker says, result in immediate engine damage. Long term use it bends rods - short term it will destroy the glow plugs. Check the glow plugs by an ohm test and pull one to make sure it is intact. Check each bank for voltage on key on at the glow plug plug terminal when the relay cycles.

Test your lift pump and bled air from the top of the fuel filter manager. The 1995's are the easiest to start vs the DB2's in my experience.

Did the WD-40 fire at all? If not make sure you have 100 RPM min while cranking. (Starter, positive battery cable internal corrosion, bad battery.) Then do a compression test as a run away can bend valves.

Check the computer for codes in case the glow plug controller harness fall apart and shorted out or other wiring issue has FUBAR's the computer's ability to run the engine. Short the 5v reference and you are done... Check all fuses. Do you get a ses and glow plug light on key on?
 
adamhammer said:
the truck started for a brief moment when I purchased it, obviously the run-away at start-up required immediate shut down. The truck is a 95 k2500, Im a bit baffled that this took 3hrs to try and bleed with minor sputters. I may try the glow plug removal just to keep the starter from getting hot and the "back-presssure" off the injectors. There's no brand name on the PMD, it's black. i wouldn't be surprised if it was the cheapest option to buy at the time. (I wish I had a spare) I was pretty diligent to match the lineup of the old IP to the new IP. By eyballing the center of the bolt and measuring with a scale to the edge of the hole, I was able to mark the upper bolt centerline, and align it in the truck. When you say "vertical" on the solenoid, is this something I need to put a torpedo level on or just eyeball? I never tried moving it to the left or right maybe this is my next attempt
Click to expand...

That sounds like david's (88GMCtruck) runaway scenario. Start and away it goes. Problem was the PMD.

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/sh...pig-slow-build&p=336770&viewfull=1#post336770

If you had a spare, I'd suggest swapping it in. Unfortunately, it's about a 300-500 dollar item so it would suck to buy one and not be the problem.

Vertical is pretty much as it sits in the truck.

Try and pull the codes to see if there's anything in there.
 
no codes on the scanner

i'm not sure what an FOS is?

I had the truck on a charger, 50A initially since the batteries have been sitting, then down to 15A in the interim of cranking, 225A while cranking. The glow plug light would come on, then turn off, then we'd start cranking. Shortly after the glow plug light would come back on, i figured they were cycling because of the long crank time.

The WD-40 made the truck sputter but no fire.
I did not jump the lift pump relay while cranking, but will try that now. also pull the glows to reduce compression so I know there is nothing keeping the air from escaping the lines.

I figure if it still was a PMD problem it would at least start and over-rev consistently. I only had one scenario where the truck started and revved for about a second before my fiance shut it off.
 
just tested voltage at the glow plugs on the left bank. I got 5 volts at the rear two and 11 at the front two. something is fishy.... any thoughts?
 
I'm going to still bet on air in the lines or PMD...assuming the rest of the truck is up to snuff that is.

Sputtering on the WD40 indicates that it will run given fuel.

So it seems fuel is the issue.

Which brings us back to PMD or air in the lines (no fuel condition).

Again, assuming the rest is installed and working correctly....
 
One other thing I'll add but won't help your current problem (well, maybe it will?); If you have a DS4 pump, you need a spare PMD in the glove box. Even if it's just a cheap 30-40 dollar used driver of eBay and you bolt it too a cheap heat sink.

One day, someday, your truck WILL fail at the worst possible time and it'll be that damned little box.

To me, a spare PMD is like having a spare tire. You won't use it often, but you'll be some glad you have it when you need it.....
 
If the PMD caused the over-rev, and has not been replaced would it continue to do the same thing or eventually just die? I dont disagree it could be the PMD, however assuming that nothing has changed in the black box since the day I towed it home and now, wouldnt it start and over-rev again?
 
adamhammer said:
If the PMD caused the over-rev, and has not been replaced would it continue to do the same thing or eventually just die? I dont disagree it could be the PMD, however assuming that nothing has changed in the black box since the day I towed it home and now, wouldnt it start and over-rev again?
Click to expand...

You would think that's logical.

But logic has very little to do with PMD's it seems.

If you do buy one, just get a cheap used one to test it.
 
the truck is "running", but surging 1000-1500 rpm. I adjusted the IP clockwise if you are looking at the front of the engine to get the truck to start. any possibilities on the surging?
 
So, you turned the IP towards the drivers side correct?

That's advancing timing IIRC.

You may just be way out of time.

Does your scanner read or initiate TDCO and base timing?
 
I've got a code 35 which reads: DTC 35 - Injection Pulse Width Error (Time Short). Can someone explain this to me and what it is I need to fix? The throttle is ineffective. The engine just revs from 1000-1800. Each time it sounds like it might idle down, the rpms jump right back up.
 
adamhammer said:
I've got a code 35 which reads: DTC 35 - Injection Pulse Width Error (Time Short). Can someone explain this to me and what it is I need to fix? The throttle is ineffective. The engine just revs from 1000-1800. Each time it sounds like it might idle down, the rpms jump right back up.
Click to expand...


To my knowledge the injection window is measured in milli seconds, from about 1.6-2 ms or maybe slightly higher.

A code 35 can be caused by poor fuel lubricity, 30w oil or 2stroke oil can help, a bad pmd can also cause it. Air in the fuel can also cause it IIRC. A bad IP is also likely. Air, pmd or IP could cause the surging.
 
Sounds like you get a failing DTech PMD? if you have not replace it, I would try that first.

See where it goes from there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top