My saga with Phoenix Friction clutch kits

[Twisted Steel Performance]

So, my P400 is finally progressing again, got caught up with customer motors for now.

I decided to try a ceramic clutch kit from Phoenix Friction. Parts arrived a couple months ago, noticed "made in China" in big bold all over the boxes and stamped on all the parts. Hum, I have a bad feeling already... My entire motor was dissembled and packed in a crate for cryo treating, I threw the clutch kit in and sent everything off...

2 weeks ago, I finished polishing my crank and rods and had everything ready to be balanced, the shop that does my work builds high rpm race motors and uses the latest high tech equipment.

A few days pass, he calls me and said I need to come over... well I got that sinking feeling in my gut... I had everything on the front of the crank, lower timing gear, stock balanced, crank pulley.. for the rear I had the flywheel, pressure plate & all bolts... when I left it I told him to balance it as if it was turning 8K rpm's, he planed to get it as perfect as possible no matter the cost, I left instructions to add Mallory and not remove any weight..

As it turns out, everything is good, except the flywheel, this flywheel looks like swiss cheese along one edge, something I haven't seen with other stock or any other flywheel for these motors..

The assembly with that flywheel is 90 grams or 3.2 oz out of balance, can we say broken crank if used... No way in hell would I use it..

I contact Phoenix Friction, they attempt to convince me that it is normal and in spec... I hit the roof and they soon got defensive, they said they can't give me balance specs because everything is made in China and they only sell them.. It didn't matter what I said, they were right and I didn't know what I was talking about. OK I want my money back, they offered store credit.. I went to paypal and started a claim, they changed their tune... I posed the question, I have proof this flywheel is balanced wrong, you have nothing to to contradict my claim, if someone purchased this kit, installed it as a replacement and it is 3.2 oz out of balance what would happen??? It would be fine was the answer I got...

So, I went back to Southbend for another clutch kit, I've had nothing but good from their kits and they are manufactured in house not off shore...

Buyer beware ..........

 

[schiker]

Glad you found it. Doubt they have ever had anyone have the balance numbers from tested.

Isn’t the clutch advertised as either a performance or at least OEM specs. Might could argue the LUK balance specs if Phoenix won’t supply theirs. At least have numbers to explain to PayPal why your tested balance is out of tolerance for the application.

I wonder if you paid your PayPal account with a credit card could you dispute charges through credit card if not satisfied with PayPal?

 

[FellowTraveler]

Glad you found it. Doubt they have ever had anyone have the balance numbers from tested.

Exactly

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

Wonder how many broken cranks are due to something like this from a aftermarket item. No one would ever know, and 90 gr or 3 oz would without a doubt do it.

 

[Will L.]

Yuppers. Folks with manual trans are even more susceptible not just because heavier flywheel and clutch, but trans gears can be way out. Auto at least eats a lot of it’s own imbalances.

I remember in auto shop class in high school, my sister was 1 year younger than me and same school but different classes. a dude grabbed her upstairs and she new my folks were tired of me getting suspended for fights. So she comes in after school one day, snagged his flexplate in class, removed counterweight and tacked it back on the opposite side, then repainted it. Didn’t even tell me till his rods were through the pan. Haha.
Then when she explained the problem and everyone told her there is jo way the counter weight was wrong she smiled and said “Watch out who you grab next time.” And strolled away. Dude literally cried, everyone laughed, and I still got suspended for a kick to his head. Haha.

It can break things in a hurry.

Chris and I spoke, and mentioned we both get called “anal” about how meticulous we are. But when your “a” is on the line...

 

[Paveltolz]

Good Catch Chris. When my motor was getting balanced that was one thing I didn't understand...why the flex plate...now I know. Thanks, I am a little less ignorant tonight.

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

A pic of the back of the Phoenix Friction flywheel... If others have a old flywheel around post a pic of the back side for comparison, my south Bend kit will be here next week, I'll post pics of it as well..

The series of holes is where it would need 90 grams / 3.2 oz added to be good.

 

[WarWagon]

SBC Pics...

SBC 1947-OKHD.
These are not the pictures you are looking for. However it's suggested to use the OEM bolts as the SBC bolts are iffy.





Outlasted a 5.9 Cummins...

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

Pics to show location of the crank dowel pin between Phoenix Friction & SouthBend ....

The dowel pin location makes all the difference where the balance really is....

I have this thread on another forum also hopping someone with a stock flywheel will post pics of a stock wheel..

 

[ak diesel driver]

Looks like if you rotated it 180* the dowel pin hole is in basically the same position relative to the casting. Not so much on the drill holes

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

Yea, one pic may be upside down, the phoenix unit is gone now, I can't really tell if the dowel is on the shallow dropped area or not on that one, would be good to see a old stock unit...

I'll know this week how the new one comes out... the south bend kit sure does look much nicer made...

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

I reoriented the pics the same, but the balance holes are way different...