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LBZ: Identifying Non-GM Calibration Usages

RayMich

RayMich

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Can someone verify if this TSB is valid for ALL LBZ vintage engines?

I've read that this was possible for the LMM but NOT for any previous vintage engine. But this TSB says that it applies to LLY and LBZ as well.

Did they make a change in the LBZ O/S to be able to do this? Is there a build date or VIN breakpoint where they began to be able to see this information on an LBZ?

If this is true, can you re-flash the stock calibration 10 times and fill up all the previous programming events?

Thanks.
 

Attachments

  • Document ID 2161108 - #08-06-04-006B - Identifying Non-GM Calibration Usage.pdf
    56.7 KB · Views: 21
ray there is a lot of good info on this here: http://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5874

i dont think with the older engines you get the history like the lmm but you get a cal id you can match with gm's history. the problem is like in the link it doesn't match even if you flash it with the gm software and then go look for a match in tis. read the link. also there is a thread in the efi live forum on this for the lmm stuff have a look it explains it good.
 
stacks04 said:
i dont think with the older engines you get the history like the lmm but you get a cal id you can match with gm's history. the problem is like in the link it doesn't match even if you flash it with the gm software and then go look for a match in tis. read the link. also there is a thread in the efi live forum on this for the lmm stuff have a look it explains it good.
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The tech bulletin I uploaded in my initial post has specific instructions for the LLY and the LBZ. My questions now is, did they make changes to later version of the LBZ software that gives them the capability to track these now? If so, is there a VIN breakpoint or a CAL number when they did this?

Apparently (TiredOldMan) at the duramaxdiesel forum was recently screwed when GM voided his warranty after finding that the CVN numbers did not match. I don't know if he had reflashed his truck back to stock or not when he took it in to the dealer.

According to MikeL at the Predator forum, he says that this is not a problem if one uses their LBZ programmer. I wanted to adjust my speedometer for the 265 tires, but now I'm wondering if I should even look at any programmers.

How would they track this on an LBZ if you re-flash the original stock tune?
Well, according to (McRat) every time you reflash the ECM, the CVN numbers change, even if you just re-flash the same original Cals. So it appears that this CVN number increments itself somehow every time the ECM is flashed.
​
 
Sure looks like they have the ability to pull the CVN's from all 06+ trucks even if it is in a roundabout way.

And you know that's the first thing they're going to check now if you go in for any sort of an engine complaint.

How much does an ECM cost? My thought is to either keep your ECM 100% stock or keep a spare one programmed to your VIN with *only* stock programming that has ever been loaded just for dealer trips. I'm paranoid about tuners to begin with and this seems to only justify that fear even more.

This makes me worry because I've committed one of the seven deadly GM sins and experimented with someone else's programmer before. Man, I feel like the guy that's praying for the stripe not to turn pink.
 
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I thought they had to honor warranty unless they can prove the tuner caused the specific problem you are trying to fix, per the Magnussen-Moss act.
 
cgreen said:
I thought they had to honor warranty unless they can prove the tuner caused the specific problem you are trying to fix, per the Magnuson-Moss act.
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Theoretically, you are correct. But if that happens, you will have to sue them and prove in court that your tuner did not cause the problem.

Much easier said than done and they generally have a lot more lawyers and expert witnesses paid by THEM to refute anything we might say.

You can bet your ass, that with financial losses amounting to BILLIONS of dollars every month, all the auto companies will be looking at ALL warranty claims with a very fine toothed comb.

This situation really SUCKS! and we have to thank those who DID cause problems on their trucks with reckless use of tuners and non-GM approved mods and DID cheat the company when they submitted and got paid for an illegal warranty claim.

Unfortunately, this cat and mouse game is quickly getting very expensive for ALL of us.
 
Guys, I've been saying this for years but everyone has been saying NO NO NO. Problem is that the answer is YES YES YES. GM can read the CVN from all Duramax engine controllers. They can also read other information that will let them know an aftermarket calibration has been installed. Sorry but that's the way it is. This is nothing new, other than GM has gone out and told everyone now. If you want to play it safe buy a replacement ECM and do not screw with the factory one. If you flash the factory calibration in with the GM equipment the CVN will match every time so unless EFI Live is changing something it should not change unless the code has changed. Any change to the code gives GM a way out of the warranty event if it's just a speedo calibration. You would have to prove that what you've changed did not cause the problem. GM only has to prove that something was changed that was not from them and they will and have voided the warranty.
 
it does not match using the tech 2. that is the point. pat mcswain has verified this. atleast reflashing the ecm he uses in his truck that was tuned via efi live. using a tech 2 and tis it still did not match.
 
Well all I can tell you is when GM flashes with the Tech II and when we have done the same here both with the Tech II and our own stuff the CVN's match just fine. Could not tell you what McSwain is doing wrong.
 
Diesel Tech said:
Guys, I've been saying this for years but everyone has been saying NO NO NO. Problem is that the answer is YES YES YES. GM can read the CVN from all Duramax engine controllers. They can also read other information that will let them know an aftermarket calibration has been installed. Sorry but that's the way it is. This is nothing new, other than GM has gone out and told everyone now. If you want to play it safe buy a replacement ECM and do not screw with the factory one. If you flash the factory calibration in with the GM equipment the CVN will match every time so unless EFI Live is changing something it should not change unless the code has changed. Any change to the code gives GM a way out of the warranty event if it's just a speedo calibration. You would have to prove that what you've changed did not cause the problem. GM only has to prove that something was changed that was not from them and they will and have voided the warranty.
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x2, get a backup.
 
Isn't the odometer mileage recorded in the ECM as well (maybe another computer)? Swapping ECM's could cause problems with mileage matching up when having warranty work done couldn't it?
 
LeadfootDuramax said:
Isn't the odometer mileage recorded in the ECM as well (maybe another computer)? Swapping ECM's could cause problems with mileage matching up when having warranty work done couldn't it?
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just put a spare programmed ECM into the Wifes Tahoe...plugged it in and the mileage remained the same...seems the mileage stays with the vehicle...
 
No but it records the mileage separately in the ECM I believe. When I was still at the dealer, we busted a few wrecker companies for changing the odometer by checking both to see if they matched.
 
I've not found the mileage stored into the ECM anywhere but it is stored in the BCM and in the air bag module if it has one.
 
It might be the BCM. I don't recall exactly.

I read on another forum that someone tried switching ECM's and loading a tuner. When they swapped ECM's back to the stock one the CVN's did not match. Possibly the BCM or another place in the truck stores the CVN's also. The problem there is that if you tried getting another BCM to use for a tuner that the mileage would be off also.
 
Bottom line here is GM, Ford and Dodge are all hurting and they are doing what it takes to try to stop the bleeding of funds. So they are putting catches in place to keep people from modifying the vehicles and then asking for warranty for something that broke. It's been in place since 2001 and now they are doing more and more. If you want to play expect to have to pay.
 
the only spot the milage is stored in our trucks is the ipc. i know because when i bought my truck the speedo was broken and i searched everywhere and found nothing to base the odo off of. we even called tac at work and they had no advice. so we went with the dash miles. i was not to worried though because the guy was a long time customer and assured me the speedo was not broken long. who knows. the guy is usually honest and never had trouble yet.
 
Diesel Tech said:
Well all I can tell you is when GM flashes with the Tech II and when we have done the same here both with the Tech II and our own stuff the CVN's match just fine. Could not tell you what McSwain is doing wrong.
Click to expand...

you have tis to verify the cvn's? i am going to test run my truck or pops truck as soon as i can so i can verify this and see what happens. i'll report back.
 
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