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LBZ Dual Alternator Wiring Help

richpres

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Have 2006 2500 HD Duramax with dual alternators. Recently purchased the truck. There's a wire missing and since it's missing I have no idea where it is supposed to run to. The wire stems off from the driver's side alternator's connector wire and runs to a connector, but at that connector the wire is simply not there -- it looks like it was pulled out of its connector and then someone just removed the wire. Weird, I know. Anyway, I'm attaching a photo and hopefully someone will know where the missing wire is supposed to go. Please see photo. I pulled the wires out of their loom so you can see the wiring better. I can take more photos and provide more info should anyone be interested in helping me out. Thanks very much!
 

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Welcome to the forum @richpres what you have there is a GM AD-244 series alternator. there are two variations of this alternator, one is of the older what I call the normal type that just takes positive inputs from the battery and ignition switch to function, the other uses what's called can-bus and requires communication with the ECM to function.

first you need to find out which one you have before messing with it. if you have the can-bus system you CANNOT by any means use a test light on any wiring or risk damage to the ECM. think of it as all the wiring are communication lines that run signals not power and grounds.

what issue are you facing? I assume one of the alternators is not working? is this a factory dual setup or something someone added? last question is what does each of the alternators sent power to? One I would assume is the engine and it's operation, the other if added can be for a multitude of things.

find yourself the factory GM wiring schematic for your particular truck and try tracing them and see where you end up. I know @Glagulator might also be able to help here in this situation and clarify some of the things too.
 
Wow, thanks very much! Maybe that's my problem -- AD-244 vs. AD-244G. Charging system is factory dual alternator and dual batteries. I didn't want to get into it for fear of scaring people off from responding, but here goes. The truck is ex-military called a Light Service Support Vehicle; e.g., Long explanation short it is 95% 12v, but a few things are 24v, like the NATO required vehicle-to-vehicle plug in the front used to jump vehicles via a specialized jumper cable and also 24v trailer wiring harness. Anyway, the passenger side battery, which is in the rear right of the engine bay back by the firewall, is charged by the passenger side alternator (battery 13v key off / 14.5v engine running), and is working. That alternator has just one wire coming out of the alternator's plug connector. One the other hand, the driver side battery is key off 12.8v key off and 12.8v at the battery engine running. Using voltmeter when I test with voltmeter between the wire on the back of the alternator that runs to the engine's plastuc red-bix junction block and that alternator's housing, I get 14.5v. But for some reason, like I said the battery isn't charging. I tested for continuity between the end of the wire at the back of the alternator and the end of the wire at the red junction block -- thinking blown fusible link, but continuity is good. When engine running, if I connect between driver side battery's positive terminal and driver's side alternator, I get 28v. Furthermore, driver's side battery is well grounded. It's just that that battery isn't charging at all. (For what it's worth, my NATO plug does have 28v, like it should.)
That's why I thought that missing brown wire might be the culprit. But, if you're saying AD-244 won't work in CAN system, which I have, maybe that's not only the problem, but I caused it. When I bought the truck the driver side alternator was bad and it was an AD-244G. I replaced it with new AD-244 because (I think) the 244 pushes 140/5 amps but the 244G pushes 105 amps. And don't ask me why but I wanted to push 140/5 amps, but no for any particular reason. Dumb as it sounds and is, I just thought more was better. I know, dumb and dumber I guess. If that brown missing wire is supposed to run to the ECM, I'm gonna be in a bad way. Honestly though, I don't think it does because there's really no way to tie it into the ECM harnesses and there was certainly nothing to indicate it was ever tied into it. There is a separate volt guage in the truck that is part of the military upgrade and my best guess is that it may have run through the firewall to inside the cab to the volt guage, which is showing zero when engine is running but should be indicating 24 or slightly better volts.
Now I'm thinking I should buy a 244G and see if that does the trick.
If this reply confuses you more than helps I understand, believe me .... And no, the military didn't publish electrical schematics for this truck. Go figure ....
Anywho, if you think the 244G vs. 244 alternator may be the problem then pain in the tush it is, I'll try swapping mine with a new 244G.
Guess you can tell I'm not very good at vehicle electrical stuff, especially vehicle engine electrical stuff. I'm 68 years old and miss the old days when there were just a few engine wires and a lot of room in the engine bays to get in there and wrench on things. Nowadays, forget it!
 
the output on the 244 and G version shouldn't matter other than the amperage they push. having them both the same is what you want since together they provide 24v, if one only outputs 140a and the other 105, there can be issues when under load. I'm not familiar with the military trucks of this style but others will chime in soon on where to look as to why one battery is not charging but both alternators are working. @Will L. might also have some in-site too.

since this truck has a NATO setup I highly doubt the alternators are run via the can-bus system on the trucks ECM, but don't quote me on that!
 
Thanks very much -- your responses are very much appreciated! Last night it was dark when I replied and I didn't feel like going out and looking at the new/replaced driver side alternator. As I mentioned, I'm not very good at this electrical stuff and here's more proof of that. The new/replaced driver alternator is a DR44. I'm not sure if that makes any difference to your or anyone else's thinking .... I'm attaching a photo from BEFORE I replaced the driver side alternator. As you can see the alternator I replaced with the DR44 was a DR44G. Not sure if that's an issue or not. Also, again showing my ignorance, I'm attaching 2 photos of the passenger side alternator. Notice that it is a 105 amp alternator and also that it has 2 wires at the plug NOT 1 wire as I said above. Very sorry about that. After confusing everyone it will be a miracle if anyone decides to respond. Geeish, I'm my own worst enemy .....
Thanks again dbrannon79 !
 

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I did a little digging around on the innerwebs and from what I've read the DR44 is a ECM controlled alternator (can-bus) the DR44G is not, but is also seeming to be a one wire alternator. in your first photo you showed the new one (DR44G) with the pigtail connector having two wires. if what I read is true, you should be able to disconnect that connector leaving only the heavy gauge wire on the back post. probe voltage from this post with a multi meter before and after starting the engine with the pigtail connector unplugged. this alternator should default to producing 13.8vdc from the power stud on the back.

Post these results and we can move from there.
 
OK, did as you suggested. Results are:
Engine off / using terminal in alternator for the brown wire with pigtail off to positive battery terminal = 27.6v
-- I get the same result, 27.6v, with the engine running
Engine off / using terminal in alternator for the grey wire with pigtail off to positive battery terminal = 23.8v With engine running I get 24.4v
Alternator case with engine running and with engine off remains the same = 27.8v
Have continuity from power stud on back of alternator to negative battery with low reading = 00.2 and meter beeps
Engine off and engine running from alternator housing to positive battery terminal = 27.8v
With engine off battery charge measured across the battery's positive and negative terminal is 13.28v and reads 13.26v with engine running and the pigtail connected.
As I said earlier, it's the darndest thing: Alt putting out better than 24v yet battery with engine running remains around 13.2v.
I retested the continuity from the power stud to the end of the power wire inside the red box and the meter beeps, fyi
Also, fyi, where that missing wire's connector is -- I pulled the missing wire half of the connector off so I could get down in there to the metal connection on the end that does have the wire: Engine running from the connector to positive battery terminal is 25.8v and to the negative battery terminal the meter reads 12.6v. Maybe that's too much information ....
Did I do all of the tests you suggested? Any ideas for next steps? Please know I really appreciate your assistance no matter where we wind up. I'm fully confident it will one day come back to you and, as for me, I'll for sure pay the favor back one day to someone. Comes around goes around ....
 
Wait a minute. you probed the small connector or the large stud with the heavy wire on the rear of the alternator? second, you have 24+ at that alternator. looking up the part number on the pic you posted, that is a 12v alternator. this might be the whole issue.

post some pics of where you are testing voltage from.
 
I'm hoping others with more knowledge on how your truck is setup on the 24v system will chime in. I myself don't know enough on them or if the trucks main system uses 24v and then steps down to 12 for other things or if it's mainly 12v and steps up to 24 for non essential systems.
 
Welcome
Yeah- the details of it being an LSSV military rig makes all the difference.
Yeah you need a 24 volt alternator for the 24 volt system to work.
Idk the details on your set up, I heard mention but never messed with any so I can’t give any specifics.

Not to run you off because myself and I am sure others would like to learn more about your rig and there is other useful info here but steelsoldiers.com is a site dedicated to ex military rigs so they might have more info if Roug can’t walk you through it.
 
Guys, please stand by until tomorrow, or maybe even Sunday. I'm replacing the passenger side alternator and I ran into a bit of trouble with the belt tensioner and I'm sorting that out right now. Going to replace that alternator with a new DR44 so at least both my alternators will be the same.

Will L., you're not running me off. I've been a member of Steel Soldiers ("SS") since around 2007 although my profile says I'm a "recent member" that's not true. Not sure what happened but I think they reset the term of my membership when I decided to become a sponsoring member since in the past those guys have been a big help to me -- I also own 3 CUCVs (2 M1028s and 1 M1008), and I also own a 2002 LSSV, although some call it a CUCV III or CUCV 3. I did ask for help a while back and I thought I might getting exactly the help I need from Stonepicker1, but alas he still hasn't responded to my last and I have a feeling I may not hear back from him. He owns a 2005 LSSV but I can see from looking at his photo that his wiring is slightly different than mine. Also, perhaps he just had some photos and doesn't own the truck anymore. Who knows, but he's a good guy judging from all the help he's provided others. It's free to join SS if you guys are interested. You may be able to read this link (https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/lssv-cucv.70307) (There's 2 pages on that thread and my stuff is on page 2 but the link is for page 1. My user name is "richpres"), but I think unless you join you can't see the posted photos. At least that's the way it used to be ....
Also, I don't think I need a 24 volt alternator, at least not on my year's LSSV (2006) because, for instance, the NATO slave plug on my LSSV is putting out 24v. The way the battery wires are configured the dual batteries are wire in series so 12v + 12v equals 24v. That's why I think, "think" mind you, that the reason I'm not getting 24v at the driver side battery is because my driver side alternator isn't charging it's battery. And, that batter is what I like to call the "auxiliary battery" because it only powers the very few 24v features of the truck, like the NATO slave plug and the trailer plug on the rear bumper and that's because NATO specs for trailers are 24v -- basically just their lighting system.

dbrannon79: Not sure what you mean by "Wait a minute. you probed the small connector or the large stud with the heavy wire on the rear of the alternator?" I probed both the pigtails pins (brown and grey), with the pigtail off of course, and I also probed the stud (power output) on the back of the alternator. I think the probe tests you suggested called for doing both. If I'm wrong please let me know.

Thanks again guys. I hope to get that alternator replaced today but it's so dang hot here in Houston that I can only work in the early mornings or later in the afternoons. My trucks parked in my driveway and gets sun almost all day long.
 
just out of curiosity do you still have the old original alternator? take it to an alternator shop and have it tested. not the local "vato-zone" but an actual shop that specializes in alternators and starters. tell them what it came off of (LSSV) letting them know your issue. they can test it and verify the alternator is fubar. They can also tell you if it's a 12v or 24v alternator you need if it's the issue. this way might save you some $$ and time.
 
Great thought but don't have the original alternator. Came with the one on it and the label on it says remanufactured so pretty sure it's not original. And, as we know it's putting out 14v and change when running. And, you can't buy the original 24V alts that were originally on some of the LSSVs. I've tried everything under the sun to find one but no luck. Even tried a couple companies that specialize in finding military parts -- they all have NSN numbers if you know what they are. The 24v alternator's NSN number is NSN 6115-01-534-2204. They all came back with Sorry Charlie, no have. Here's what it looked like -- the 24v ones -- and forget the business about M1008, they don't use a 24v alternator -- they use two 12v alts. https://real4wd.com/product/generator-m1008
If you type in the NSN number above up will come links to pretty many US government part suppliers -- I must have tried at least five of them and no luck. Figures since I think they all use pretty much the same warehousers and essentially broker the deals.
I did call a few alternator shops and they said they could modify a 12v to 24v but putting in, I think they said, a 24v regulator, but I don't think that's going to work.
I didn't mention it earlier because I'm so embarassed, but here goes anyway. Color me stupid. This morning I was horsing around with trying to get 24v to the driver battery and I took a wire and put one end on the driver alt casing and the other, not on the driver battery's negative terminal but the positive terminal. That was a BIG mistake. Got the big spark. Fingers crossed I didn't blow anything. Hahahahaha! Now my ABS/Brake System warning light is on and there's a message in the odometer area says Service Brake System, AND also now my airbag warning light is on and there's another message also coming up saying Service Air Bag System, and if that were not enough, the passenger alternator, not the driver alt for some strange reason, is putting out 18v and cooking the passenger battery. So, I know I at least blew the regulator in the passenger alt and no you know why I'm putting in a new passenger alternator. Did some research and I could have blown up several things causing the ABS and Air Bag issue. But the bottom line is I've really shot myself in the foot now. I feel so stupid I can't get over it. Anyway, one thing at a time. Replace the passenger alternator so I can at least run the truck without pushing 18v through the entire truck's electrical system. As I mentioned above, the driver battery / auxiliary battery works with the 24v stuff, when it's working, but the driver battery, which I call the house battery, runs everything else. All sorts of stuff out there about maybe blowing the impact sensors in the front and geeish, the ECM, etc. I had a bad feeling given my ignorance about electricals that sooner or later I was gonna really step in it and sure enough ....
 
Oh, and of course I did learn one thing. If pass side alt was frying the battery wirh alt putting out 18v, imagine what would happen if it was putting out 24v even if I could find a replacement 24v alt. As it was, at 18v, the battery leaked battery acid out the top.
 
My 2 farthings:
Yes a builder is best option IF you decide you real need one.
Other than jump starting one of your other rigs- I don’t see why. I’d rather a 24v jumper box for less $$ over all and then they are switchable to do 12v also.
 
OK, latest update. This morning I pulled the passenger side 24v alternator with only a minimum amount of bloodshed. Notice I called it "24v" alternator. That's because, and here's the silver lining for my mistakes, at least one big one: Turns out that that alt is indeed an original (or at least remanufactured original) 24v alternator. Amazing .... If you only knew how are these are to find and here it turns out I have one although, as we know it's rectifier is blown, at least I'm pretty sure that's what happened due to my stupidity mentioned above -- caused the alt to start pumping out 18v rather than the 12v it was putting out before.
From the tags on the alternators loomed wiring, which by the way runs from that passenger side across the engine and to the negative terminal of the driver side battery's, I think I've learned two things: (1) The tag showing Bolton Conductive Systems L.L.C. has the correct alternator's government part number (not it's NSN), which is indeed TX017797 (for ease of reference see again https://real4wd.com/product/generator-m1008).
Unfortunately, from my web searches it appears that Bolton is not in business anymore. Looks like it was bought out by a company called Stoneridge. Not great but perhaps not the end of the world -- we'll see. Looking at the other tags, the company Transglobal Design & Manufacturing is listed. Their tag list "Harness, Alternator" and TX017797 "Transglobal 24V" (see the tag with the green wring on it, which also reads "OUTPUT: 28.0" So, there is at least some hope that perhaps Transglobal, which via my web search indicates that they are still in business: https://governmentbidders.com/gover...r-5362309-TRANSGLOBAL-DESIGN-MANUFACTURIN.htm
On Monday I plan to call them and see if they manufactured the alternator and, if they did can they rebuild mine.
If they say No, then the fallback plan is to find a local alternator shop that knows their elbow from a hole in the ground and find out whether they can by looking at the parts that are in the alternator, fix it, and while I'm at it I'm going to ask them if they can take a new alternator and re-configure it to duplicate my alternator.
Anyway, I'm on hold until Monday, which isn't a bad thing. Yesterday, after my stupidity, I was ready to push the truck off a cliff, my follow up to kicking my self so many times I could barely sit down.
Thanks so much for sticking with me here. And, since one of the tags says "DO NOT GROUND TERMINALS" I'm wondering if the non-charging driver side battery is actually grounded because it seems to me that if that battery is grounded (which I thought it was) then maybe it makes some sense why that battery isn't charging although it is (or was before the Big Spark) putting out 27 volts -- I mean, I've always thought that a battery had to be grounded to charge ...???
 

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Idk that trucks electrical system.
But 12 volt and 24 volt components should not share the same ground if either of them uses electronics. And seeing as you have at least an ecm- I would keep that 24 volt ground isolated.

Normally military rigs have an isolated ground anyways- but that’s really a regular truck adapted to useage.
 
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