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Just bought my first 6.5..stalled today...where do I start?

P

phil

Love this truck!
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Problem: Explain your problem in concise language (ie: Cranks but won’t fire). ___purchased the truck last year, cleaned every ground and replaced PMD, OPS, and sensor on thermostat housing, today she stalled about 5 seconds after starting...now she cranks and cranks but won't fire....suspect lift pump? looks really old and corroded, and like an old tin can! Also what upgrades/mods to do with first $1,000 - $2,000 and in what order_________________

Demographics: tell us about your truck and your ambient conditions:

- Year: ___1995___
- Truck model and class (ie: c2500) ____C2500_____
- Automatic or Standard ___Auto_______
- Mileage: (indicate miles or km) _____143000 miles____
- Replaced parts and mods (IP, PMD, chip/PCM, TM, injectors etc) _____Heath PMD bumper, scrubbed every ground, batteries load tested______
- Model: ‘S’ or ‘F’ engine, NA or Turbo, EGR? _______F turbo_______
- Ambient outside temp: (indicate *C or *F) ____70______
- What fuel are you using? (#1 Diesel, #2 Diesel, Bio, VO, WVO, etc) ____Highway rated fuel from high volume station_____
- What fuel additives are you using? _____Opti-Lube XPD______
- Where are you located? _____New Jersey________

General maintenance: inspect and evaluate the condition of each. When were they last changed?
- Air filter ____3 months_____
- Fuel filter ____1 week_____
- CDR Valve? ____Long time_____
- Coolant – last flushed/replaced at ______Don't know_______
- Oil – synthetic/regular, changed at _____Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck______
- Batteries – state of charge, (matched set) replaced at _____Excellent Condition________
- Battery cables and grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened): _______3 Months_______
- Glow Plugs - how many miles on them? ____Don't know_____ What type? _____Don't Know but rusty connectors________
- Injectors - last changed at _______Don't Know________


History: (Describe how the problem first appeared.)
- What were you doing when it happened? __Drove home from work 5 miles, was home for an hour, started right up and kind of shuttered and like it had run out of fuel. Fuel tank was 3/4 full . Cranked it for about 7 seconds and fired right up, worked the pedal for a few seconds and she stayed running. Remembering what I read here, I opened the little t handle on thermostat housing and she stuttered and died after about 10-12 seconds. _________
- How was the truck running fine before this problem appeared? ______Once in a while I would notice a little stutter like a fuel starving kind of feeling_______
- Has this problem ever happened before? ______a couple times a week maybe for the last 2 - 3 weeks_________________
- Describe any related factors that might be part of the problem. ______
- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? (Y.N) __Y__ And? ___codes 36 and 78...little black and orange vacuum lines to wastgate solenoid are broken since I bought the truck! 36? do i need GMTDScan Tech?_____________


Diagnostics:

1] Starting:
1a] Does the engine start? ___No______
1b] Does the engine crank over? ____very strong____
1c] Are your batteries fully charged? ___Yes______
1d] Have you removed, cleaned, and tightened all battery connections? ____Yes____
1e] Does your Wait to Start light come on for a time? How long? ____Yes 5-6 seconds_____
1f] Does your glow plug light come on? ____GPL?_____ For how long? _________
1g] Do you see smoke from the exhaust while cranking? What color? ____Black, also if engine is revved some black exhaust not excessive____
1h] Does the Service Engine Light Glow during Start/bulb check? ___Yes, pretty sure_____

2] Fuel Issues (if not running):
2a] Can you hear your lift pump working? _____Even today when I got home after only driving 5 miles in 75 degree weather, the fuel pump ran for 2 seconds after shutting of ignition, I have made it a habit to listen for it ever since I replaced PMD_______
2b] Do you get a steady flow of fuel from the water drain (T-handle) ? __I replaced PMD 2 months ago...and there was a nice flow as well as fuel out of air bleeder on top of fuel filter housing ______
2c] Loosen the inlet line from the IP – is fuel coming out (Lift Pump on)? _____Don't know how______
2d] Loosen an injector line and crank the engine - does fuel come out? ____Havent tried yet_____
2e] Do you hear a vacuum (hiss) when you remove the fuel cap? ____sometimes..though usually lightly_______

3] PMD / IP Issues
3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) _____bumper...before replacing stalling was very frequent.. as soon as i would hit 1600 rpms or better the ses light would come on and stalling as soon as foot was taken off of accelerator...babied the truck for a few months at 25 miles an hour till I was sure it was PMD!______
3b] Condition of Extension harness (if used) Vendor or Homemade? ____Heath_____
3c] Condition of grounds / ground wires to IP / PMD. Check Harness. ____Clean_____
3d] PMD Make: _____HDP performance______
3e] PMD Age: ____couple months_________

4] Stalling Issues
4a] Do you experience stalling only when hot? ______Cant really say... first time since PMD______
4b] Does it stall under particular circumstances? (ie hit bump, or on accel) ___NO___
4c] Does pouring cool water over the IP seem to help with restarting? ___NO______
4d] Is stalling momentary (engine recovers)? ____NO_____
4e] Does SES light come on when engine hiccups? _________
4f] Does cruise control quit working when engine hiccups? ___________
4g] Does re-starting seem to reset engine, restoring cruise and power? _________
4h] Changes to dash lights or instruments during stalling events? ___________

5] Running Issues
5a] On cold start, does upper rad hose get hard before engine warms up? ____Dk___
5b] Any bubbles or oil film in coolant overflow tank? ___DK____
5c] Any white slime on oil surfaces (dipstick, CDR, oil Fill cap)? ____No______
5d] Excessive white smoke from exhaust on cold start? ____No_____
5e] Excessive black smoke from exhaust under hard acceleration? ____Yes______

6] Performance Issues
6a] Do you have gauges (boost, EGT) ? ____No_______
6b] Maximum boost under load? ______Dk______
6c] Have you added a performance PCM (reflash) or Chip? ____No__________
6d] Have you changed exhaust / downpipe / crossover? ______No__________
6e] Wastegate – mechanical or vacuum (OEM)? _______Dk_______

7] Temperature-related Issues:
7a] Single or dual thermostats? _____Dk_______
7b] Have you replaced them lately? Manufacturer of replacements? ____No_____
7c] Have you pulled and cleaned Radiator and coolers lately? _____No ...never gets hot always great temp_______
7d] Have you replaced the fan clutch? Manufacturer of replacement? ____No____
7e] (winter) Have you tested your antifreeze? Good to what temp? ____No______
7f] (winter) Are you using a winter grille cover? ___No________

List and describe any other factors which are not addressed in this checklist. We can’t see, hear, smell, or touch your truck, so the more descriptive information you can give, the more likely it is that somebody can assist you.

_________________________________
__________________
 
The LP can run but not pump, could be a clogged tank sock or an air leak in the fuel line. Stalling when you opened the T valve points to fuel.
 
The truck stalled so abruptly...after the truck stalled from opening the t-handle, i decided to look in the filter bowl and it was empty.....I didnt have anyone with me so i dont know if lift pump is running while cranking...should i go ahead and replace the lift pump anyway as it is so old or do i need to drop the tank and check the sock first?
 
Remove the inlet fitting to the lift pump and blow back to the tank with compressed air, remove fuel cap first. The LP can be powered by putting the trans in drive and turn the ign to start. If that powers the LP then it is likely your OPS is shot.
 
  • remove your lift pump relay in the fuse box underhood.
  • short the relay with a piece of electrical wire connecting prongs 30 and 87, or make a jumper, this will bypass OPS and power the lift pump.
  • open the T-valve close the T-stats housing and see if fuel is strongly dripping off the hose

If no fuel, then your lift pump is dead.
If you get fuel, then be suspicious about your OPS.
 
You asked about upgrades, I would get a fuel pressure gauge next. It is very important to have on our trucks.
 
Welcome!!!

If you feel that the LP looks corroded and ugly, change it first, it is probably corroded inside also and who knows about the electrical on that thing.

See if that solves the problem first before dropping the tank, etc.
 
How do your fuel lines look? I have yet to have a dead lift pump totally kill the engine with no restart. The injection pump should pull the fuel through.
I would get an AC Delco lift pump for a 93 either now or later anyway. I might leave your current lift pump on til you are finished diagnosing your problem. I've had ugly lift pumps run for a couple of years.
I'd jumper the lift pump and see if anything comes out the drain or the bleeder.
If not remove the lift pump And hook a hose to each end. Pump some fuel from container to container and note the flow. This will confirm that your lift pump is bad.
It sounds to me like you might have a leak in your supply line possibly in addition to a bad lift pump, OPS &/or weak Injection pump

You could also have a leak in you supply line in between your lift pump and filter. Or even at the top of your fuel tank sending unit.
That would allow you to suck the fuel out of the filter and refill the filter housing with air if your lift pump is not running do to a bad lift pump, OPS or both.
With a running lift pump sometimes these leaks in the line will not be evident as fuel will be leaking out as apposed to air sucking in.
 
Last edited:
With all do respect to jrsavoie!!!

Don't want to have your IP pulls the fuel, though. Ask my dad on how he lost 2 IP in less than 1 year. Who knows it may take the IP with it already.

If you don't have good running LP, you cannot detect any leaks since there is no fuel flowing??? Bad LP usually cause air in the system. This one is my own experience. I ran bad LP for who knows how long. Hard starting, turns out the LP was bad. It was purring but it is erratic. The electrical was not great either when I tried to put KD relay, it did not work. Wonder why???

Replace the LP, hook up the relay, everything works. Never had difficulty starting even with bad alternator but that is a different story.
 
JMJNet said:
With all do respect to jrsavoie!!!

Don't want to have your IP pulls the fuel, though. Ask my dad on how he lost 2 IP in less than 1 year. Who knows it may take the IP with it already.

If you don't have good running LP, you cannot detect any leaks since there is no fuel flowing??? Bad LP usually cause air in the system. This one is my own experience. I ran bad LP for who knows how long. Hard starting, turns out the LP was bad. It was purring but it is erratic. The electrical was not great either when I tried to put KD relay, it did not work. Wonder why???

Replace the LP, hook up the relay, everything works. Never had difficulty starting even with bad alternator but that is a different story.
Click to expand...

That's why the first thing you do is jumper the lift, do the diagnostic stuuf and determine for sure that is your problem.
If you replace one good lift pump with another you've wasted time and money while being exactly where you were when you started.
I personally have never gotten air from a bad lift pump. It's always been in conjunction with a very small leak in a line that a working lift pump overpowers.
 
Took out the relay and jumpered pump.....no fuel at all, even after pumping for over a minute.

Removed the lift pump and got just a trickle of fuel. Blew air through the line towards tank and then there was so much volume I'm sure the screen had to be obstructed.

After that nice diesel bath I installed AC Delco OPS and replaced the pump with Airtex ($75) for now because I'm wasn't sure of the age/wear of the old pump.

Is the heath diesel lift pump worth almost double the price?

Now to install a fuel pressure guage that I can monitor while driving.
 
ak diesel driver said:
your going to have to drop your tank or it will clog up again probably pretty soon.
Click to expand...

Yep. You can check your old lift pump by pumping all of the fuel out of the tank. I just installed the lift pump with the send line detached & clamped a hose to the outlet side of the lift pump and ran the fuel out to 5 gal cans.
You want the tank as empty as possible. Makes it much easier to handle. If your lines are very rusty you just as well have a new sending unit on hand
 
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