installing HHO on GM 6.5TD

[seza]

I am thinking of installing the much hyped HHO kit on my 1994 chevy sub with 6.5TD V8 (mechanical IP)
this is not to start a discussion about the merits of HHO more to ask if it is safe to install and run it on this kid of engine.

I've read elsewhere that engines with a pre-chamber are not be suitable as the hydrogen might 'grenade' the engine!?

If any of you has installed HHO on the 6.5TD - please let us know the verdict.

thank you

 

[Woody35]

private pilot on dieselplace did a lot a reasearch about it and concluded it wasnt very safe for the 6.5. he instead decided to go with wmi. if you pm him i bet he could get you some links to look at and tell you some of the reasons as to why he decided to not use it.

 

[NVW]

IMO the 6.5 is a lot like us, anything in moderation is OK. The Cummins or Dmax can take a lot more excess.

 

[schiker]

I doubt you will get that much Hydrogen generated to cause problem. There are a few that used it. Franko ran it. Propane in low % or water & meth in low % is ok. Its all about the air temp during combustion. Not only is IDI the issue its also the lack of charge air cooling for the 6.5.

With IDI when EGT and ECT are both high the precup is chamber is really hot and causes quicker flame propagation of fuel burn. I suspect that is what kills the lower end it hammers the bearing caps with piston near TDC or before. This can happen with regular Diesel and why the danger is ECT over 210F. But again no charge air cooling is also to blame not just the IDI chamber. ( Warwagon posted some nailing with a Duramax under load that had high IAT)

I would say use with boost fooler or turbo master with steady boost control up to max of 11 psi sustained with factory programming. On a daily drive with normal temps it should be fine.

 

[Franko914]

I haven't run HHO and WMI together but am planning to.

The added oxygen from HHO (hydrogen-hydrogen-oxygen) generation for a cleaner burn is what helps improve efficiency/fuel consumption. Without O2/Lambda sensors, our diesels are perfect for the application.

The cooling of the charge air with WMI (water mist injection) is a really quick and easy method of dropping the temperature 20 deg.F, or thereabouts.

The juries are still out and debates continue regarding the roles played by hydrogen (HHO) and/or methanol (WMI) in the combustion processes of diesel (and petrol) engines because of the varying percentages of the charge "fuel"-air mix... Predetonation of hydrogen or alcohol as the piston travels along the compression stroke; flash point of fuels that range from any temp for hydrogen (as long as oxygen is present), to 52-55 deg.F for methanol/ethanol, to 100-130 deg.F for diesel, etc. as the temperature approaches 1,200-1,300 deg.F before diesel is injected.

 

[seza]

Thank you guys,
The HHO kit I have is made up of two cells with 21 plates on each, size of 3"x5", intend to run the cells with a PWM (pulse width modulator),
what is not clear is where to introduce the gas? before or after the Turbo? if before you run the risk of having the babbler getting sucked dry by the turbo.
I still would like to hear from someone who has installed such a kit of the 6.5TD.

 

[ak diesel driver]

It would have to be pre-turbo or you'd have to pump it in against the boost pressure

 

[seza]

AK, in that case the turbo is likely to suck water out of the babbler, what to do about that?

 

[ak diesel driver]

the further away from the turbo you are the less vacuum you'll have, but anywhere in the air system will have some vacuum pre turbo. I remember reading about how to overcome it but my old timers won't let me remember what it was

 

[WarWagon]

What do you expect to gain by spending cash on this? Power? MPG? Will it pay for itself? Is the risk of blowing the engine that already is putting out near double it's design HP worth it?

Hydrogen as well as propane is flammable. It is like adding ether to the engine. You have something burning before TDC attempting to drive the piston against the compression stroke. This raises pressure in the cylinder before the fuel gets in. It advances the timing as the fuel will light quicker in the hotter higher pressure air. All adds stress to the engine's parts including the fragile block.

In moderation is is like adding more boost - too much and the head gaskets depart or rods bend. This engine could crack the main bearings clean out of the block.

The timing advance from the "burn" is the most stressful esp if you already have a tune advancing timing. Too much timing although giving you more power to a point starts to pop the TTY head bolts while trying to drive the crank in reverse. You may or may not hear this ping on this engine. Too much factory timing with high load and heat soaked parts from a hill made the Dmax engine ping like a gasser. A good hot day and a long hill climb may sneak all of this up on you when you though it was running perfect.

With 6.2/6.5 L displacement turning 2100 RPM that is 6825 liters of air per minute W/O a turbo. How much hydrogen oxygen is this really going to add - how many decimal places before we get a 1? 0.001? Propane may do something where this may be so small it will not be a concern.

 

[Oldbro]

HHO Kit 21 plates where to mount it is my problem?

Thank you guys,
The HHO kit I have is made up of two cells with 21 plates on each, size of 3"x5", intend to run the cells with a PWM (pulse width modulator),
what is not clear is where to introduce the gas? before or after the Turbo? if before you run the risk of having the babbler getting sucked dry by the turbo.
I still would like to hear from someone who has installed such a kit of the 6.5TD.

I have the same size HHO kit. I can not see a problem having the batter sucked out unless the air filter is plugged. The HHO feed line is only 1/2 inch. My problem is where to mount the plates that is still a foot below the the water reservoir??? Anyone have any good ideas for a 93 GMC 6.5L 3500 Dually???

 

[seza]

I found the best place for the plate kit is inside the front bumper, there is plenty of room there, out of the way and way below the reservoir,
I installed mine but I have not wired it yet as am not confident when it comes to electrics,

good luck

 

[Oldbro]

Thank You Seza. I have mounted the plates inside the bumper. Fit perfect good suggestion. I am going to strap/glue the water reservoir and the bubbler to the rad over flow tank/reservoir. Run the hoses through the air filter channel in the fender down to the front bumber. All coming together and I will tell you later how I going to wire it.
Oldbro

I found the best place for the plate kit is inside the front bumper, there is plenty of room there, out of the way and way below the reservoir,
I installed mine but I have not wired it yet as am not confident when it comes to electrics,

good luck

 

[seza]

great to hear you got the kit in place, am all set as well, wired to the bat via a PWM (Pulse width modulator), my kit is bit small, it is made up of 21 plates x 2 (ie two units),
I made one modification: I added a second babbler before feeding gas to the air intake before turbo.
I run it so far for couple of days, the only parts that get bit warm are the electric wires, the relay and the PWM, so far hard to tell if it is having any effect at all.

let us know how you got on

 

[Oldbro]

Hi Seza. Another HHO Question

great to hear you got the kit in place, am all set as well, wired to the bat via a PWM (Pulse width modulator), my kit is bit small, it is made up of 21 plates x 2 (ie two units),
I made one modification: I added a second babbler before feeding gas to the air intake before turbo.
I run it so far for couple of days, the only parts that get bit warm are the electric wires, the relay and the PWM, so far hard to tell if it is having any effect at all.

let us know how you got on

Seza I used your suggestions and everything worked out OK.I have only 21 plates not 21 x2 like you. I found faster RPM response and the truck seemed to be faster. But maybe it was just me being sportier. I hitched up the 10,000 lb. 5th wheel and head for California. I was feeling the truck was working smoother, quieter and I was happy. Then one of my new batteries boiled and I could only think it must of been caused some how through my HHO wiring system. So I unplug the HHO and I never found out if I had gotten better mileage when running using it. Damm... I bought a new battery and that fixed that. Except I have not hooked up my HHO system while I am still on the road. Seza do you have any thoughts about the HHO system and boiling batteries???
Oldbro.