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Ignition situation................

Yachtcare

Yachtcare

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The truck in the sig below has been experiencing random starting problems for the past year or more. It is related only to the starter itself. When the vehicle starts, it runs fine, no codes.

I originally thought the crappy remans from AZ were the issue. I was replacing them on the average of every 6 months. The problem would clear up when I replaced the starters for about 5 months, then start again and get progressively worse until I replaced the starter, and began the cycle again.

Well, I started the cycle again two weeks ago with another (warranty) replacement. The problem has re manifest itself after three days, and now is as bad as it was before the recent replacement.

The symptoms...........

Stone cold engine in the morning..... Starter engages, engine starts and runs fine. Rare occasion does not start with a loud click from the solenoid. Try again in a half hour or so, and will start.

Warm engine.....May or may not, and usually does not start. Just a loud click from the solenoid. Battery conditions are fine. Can usually start by going under the fender with a wrench and jumping the posts to throw out the bendix gear, then going in to hit the key again and it will start, about 50% of the time. The other 50% just have to wait it out til it cools. Typically at least 4 hours.

About two years back, had a problem with the fusible link at the firewall. It burned up, and I replaced it with a 40 amp fuse instead of more FL.

Battery cables replaced with new #2 cable two years ago.
New matched set of AZ gold tops in December of '09, test fine.

Cleaned the grounds and all connections when I R&Red starter two weeks ago Saturday. Everything clean and tight.
Engine and truck runs and drives fine when it starts. NO CODES.

I suspected switch at the column, but the solenoid ALWAYS goes click when I turn the key.

Any ideas what to check next? Thanks for any suggestions.
 
What if you hooked up a remote starter button like is used when you need to bump over a motor when working on it? Clip it onto the solenoid and to 12v+ power. Then run the wire with button inside the cab. Try to start with the ignition and if it just clicks leave the ignition in the run position and push the remote button to see if it will crank. If it then starts you know you probably have a wiring issue somewhere between the ig switch and the solenoid.

Don
 
What do you mean exactly about the clicking when it doesnt start. Can you describe "Rare occasion does not start with a loud click from the solenoid" more, are you saying the starter is not engaging and not cranking at all? Or it doesnt engage and just spins? This little description is hard to say whats going on.

Coincidentally, this started shortly after you changed the cables. But once we understand what you mean by it clicks and doesnt start could shed more light. Such as, is it hitting the flexplate so it cant engage, like it needs to be shimmed, does this have the starter brack on it?
 
buddy said:
What do you mean exactly about the clicking when it doesnt start. Can you describe "Rare occasion does not start with a loud click from the solenoid" more, are you saying the starter is not engaging and not cranking at all? Or it doesnt engage and just spins? This little description is hard to say whats going on.

Coincidentally, this started shortly after you changed the cables. But once we understand what you mean by it clicks and doesnt start could shed more light. Such as, is it hitting the flexplate so it cant engage, like it needs to be shimmed, does this have the starter brack on it?
Click to expand...

Sorry for the vagueness. To clarify, it will not start, but makes a loud click at the solenoid. In much the same manner as a discharged battery would make the solenoid click, but not spin the starter.

Not hitting the flexplate, but I can get the bendix to spin when I jump the posts on the starter. SOMETIMES when I do that, I can hit the key again, and it will start normally.

I picked up a new "ignition switch" at Advance today to put on the column. Hope to get to it in the next day or two. But I'm not convinced that's the problem. But with well over 200K miles at this point, it cant hurt.
 
Yachtcare said:
Sorry for the vagueness. To clarify, it will not start, but makes a loud click at the solenoid. In much the same manner as a discharged battery would make the solenoid click, but not spin the starter.

Not hitting the flexplate, but I can get the bendix to spin when I jump the posts on the starter. SOMETIMES when I do that, I can hit the key again, and it will start normally.

I picked up a new "ignition switch" at Advance today to put on the column. Hope to get to it in the next day or two. But I'm not convinced that's the problem. But with well over 200K miles at this point, it cant hurt.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a bad Starter Sol.
 
NVW said:
That sounds like a bad Starter Sol.
Click to expand...

I agree, but so many bad ones? There must be a failure mode. Like a mis wired configuration, is that possible? How many wires go to our starter solenoids? Is something making a difference in the starters contact to the block for a good ground? Like using some sort of gasket or non conducting shim or I dont know how the bolts wouldnt ground it, unless using some non conductive hardened coated bolts or something. Not sure how to get that many to fail so fast.

Have you been using any jump starters to get it started?
 
It works when he jumps the power, so I am thinking the problem must be the coil that should close the contacts in the solenoid. The ignition in Start needs to provide enough current to close the contacts and perhaps its not. So the ignition wire to the solenoid is what I would be checking, or the switch itself. In our demo derby cars I just run a push button switch to the starter and never use the ignition. You could try that in parallel, and if the ignition doesnt do it but you push the other button and it cranks then must just be the switch or wire from the switch to the starter.
 
If the 1994 is like the 1993...
Wire from the battery to the main junction and the starter solenoid wire both pass between the exhaust manifold and the starter heat shield. Known to burn the insulation off the wire there and corrosion does the rest. Also check the main power feed wire by the battery for shorting on the battery tray after rubbing a hole in the insulation.

You do have the starter heat shield in place?

This sounds exactly like the hot start bad starter solenoid issue gas engines have. You are likely getting your old cleaned up starters back now that have a bad solenoid when hot. After all they test good when cold and therefore don't get a part thrown at them during rebuild.

If the wires are good take a starter down to an electric motor shop and have them replace the solenoid. Only way to be sure. Or buy a NEW starter - not reman/rebuilt/cleaned painted to look new.
 
Yachtcare said:
Sorry for the vagueness. To clarify, it will not start, but makes a loud click at the solenoid. In much the same manner as a discharged battery would make the solenoid click, but not spin the starter.

Not hitting the flexplate, but I can get the bendix to spin when I jump the posts on the starter. SOMETIMES when I do that, I can hit the key again, and it will start normally.

I picked up a new "ignition switch" at Advance today to put on the column. Hope to get to it in the next day or two. But I'm not convinced that's the problem. But with well over 200K miles at this point, it cant hurt.
Click to expand...
Sounds to me you got a bad bunch of starters.
I would switch suppliers.

As you indicate the starter will spin when jumping te big posts so there is batt power there.
Turning the key sends power to activate the solenoid and it clicks,so it works but fails to transmit power to the starter.( it often works intermittent)
That indicates bad solenoid contacts or the soleniod is not going the full stroke which might be caused by weak power from a bad ign switch .
As Handcannon mentioned that can be diagnosed by bypassing the key switch and jumping the small post with the big post at the starter .
 
Check the ignition wire running to the starter. It should be a purple wire and run behind the heat shield following the glow plug wiring. Had a similar issue and the glow wires and starter wire had melted together and would start worse when hot.....ended up re-wiring the glow plugs and running a new wire. Just my 2 cents.
 
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