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idle surging/diing issue. now white smoke and rough, loopy idle

D

diesel on

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san jose, ca
Started it up in morning(65*) . It idled fine, noticed coolant light on, while engine was running (maybe 1 minute or less) opened coolant overflow tank to add coolant. It revved up on its own, then died. I finished adding coolant, went to restart it, same issue. Revved to 2500rpm, then died. I tried it on last time, same thing, rev up and die. (I suspected PMD)

ran lift pump and drained out some fuel(veggie oil), had a ton of visible water)
Flushed fuel lines with clean diesel, running straight diesel now.

issues now: no more idle surge(for now) I can drive it around block, no surging.
makes white/grey smoke at idle, loopy idle, like its running on only a few cylinders, It did sound like it was missing before I ran diesel through the engine. would happen around 1500-2000 i would hear it miss a little
changed fuel filter and purged air.
cracked one injector at a time, changed idle on the 5 i can get easily, need to do 3 passenger side , by turbo.
It does sound like the engine has a knock. or noise fro the pass. side of engine
Been that way since I bought it. It had a broken starter when I purchased it, so i did not hear it run.....

I drove it 50 miles previous day, no engine issues at all, had it towed home due to blown tire and it sat for a few days, fixed tire, now it has become a hot mess.
Did the tow home move/slosh some crap in the tank and clog up ip or injectors?
I did not see unusual temp readings on the day I drove it, just noticed coolant light the next time I started it( maybe a week of sitting.)

2. 1995 6.5 TD
3. 402,300
4. Indicate the model number on the Injection pump (starts DS4 or DB2......).
5. 2500
6. Yes, EGR
7. Air Filter was changed post-issue
8. Fuel filter was changed post-issue
9. PMD remote over intake, with home made heat sink
9a. looks homemade
9b. FSD/IP grounding wire is visable and attches to heat sink
10. Outside Temperature (C or F). 65°

11. Service Engine Light while running?- intermittent
11a. Service Engine light does glow during start/cranking/bulb check: Yes
12.Have you scanned for engine codes? No, obd1, don’t have the correct tool
12a. List exact results on engine codes.

13. Condition of Battery terminals cleaned and tightened
14. Newish, noth hold a charge of 12.5, engine cranks good.
14a. Are batteries a matched set of same age? yes
15. Condition of Major Grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened), two on block, one small wire (8 gage) for body ground.
15a Have the batteries been individually load tested? no

16. Does engine crank, or "turn over"? yes
16a. Does engine start and run? yes
17. If engine does not start- Crack injector line: do you have fuel? Yes/No
18. Does your Wait To Start light come on? Yes, glow plug manual
18a.Number of seconds WTS light is lit.
19. Engine Cranking speed (if you have an accurate tachometer). Don’t know

20. Are you experiencing Stalling?,yes, after idle surge
20a. Describe the event (upon startup only, down the road, hit a bump, etc...) after running for a few seconds, idle surges up to 2,500, then dies
20b. Do you notice loss of dash or instruments? No, fuel gauge is bouncing around, loose ground
21. Check turbo inlet and air filter for obstructions. None.
22. In a no-hot start, pour a bottle of room-temp water on the injection pump. Does it start now?
23. Lift pump test - Describe results. Aftermarket unit, pumps 15 psi to filter, flows about a pint in 30 seconds. Truck was running ambient temp veggie oil only when I tested rate, now flushed with diesel, flows a bit more

24. Upon cold start, does the radiator hose get hard quickly? No, not noticed
25. Upon cold start, do you have excessive white smoke? No, but more than before when run on veggie
26. Do you have excessive cranking time before the engine starts?No
27. Have you used the block heater? Does it affect engine starting? Injector pump has heat block to heat veggie oil, runs for 2.5 minutes, then engine starts ok.
28. Are all glow plugs in proper working order? Appear to be so

29. During hard acceleration, do you have excessive black smoke? Not excessive
30. Do you have any unusual exhaust smoke issues? Was black/light grey when run on veggie, now appears white/grey while slowly driving around on diesel
31. Turbo check out - Pass/Fail
32. Indicate fuel that you are using: SVO/WVO
32a. If running Veggie Oil fuel setup, indicate details of your conversion, homemade wvo setup. Has ip heater block set up to heat oil, aftermarket lift pump, 5 micro hi temp filter pre-oem filter, fuel pressure gauges at 1st and second filter, heater plate inline of fuel with coolant to get oil hot once car is warm.
33. Are you using any fuel additives? no.
34. Upon unscrewing fuel cap, do you have a large vacuum formed in the tank? Don’t notice any
35. Do you have any service history available that might pertain to the problem you are having? no
36. Please indicate any modifications to the vehicle that might help us diagnose better.
Veggie oil conversion, single tank system, equipped with two lights on tells when oil in ip is 120*, second when oil is 150*, car will start at 120* easily, use manual glow plug for 10 seconds, then fires up. Truck has been run for 60k this way.
Pmd relocated on intake with custom heatsink.
 
Im betting the veg oil has something to do with it.
You say "single tank system" that means you did not have a diesel system at all at the time right?
One thing is the DS4 ip does not do well with dark fuels (were you running WVO or virgin oil?).
If it was a one tank system I bet the IP line are pluged up.
If you had lots of water in the oil that will funk everything up and make it a mess, also internal IP part will corrode.
Have you replaced filters? What did they look like?
Is your current diesel system the complete factory system now? If not how is it set up?
 
Water will ruin an IP and blow the tips off injectors. The factory filter is not very good for blocking water.

Did you drop the tank to get the water out? Did you clean out the fuel filter manager and remove the water out of the bottom of it? New fuel filter? Look up bugs in diesel and make sure you don't have that going on. B99 and veggie oil will make a real mess real quick with bug growth.
 
First, thanks for the suggestions. I have the tank bypassed right now, running out of 5 gallon bucket with diesel. I will drop the tank, but I am pretty sure I'm going a ton of settled water, and possibly some microbe growth as well.
As far as modifications, the system will operate to keep the right temp in the ip when running. The IP has two aluminum heater blocks with glow plugs in it bolted to the sides of the pump. It has two indicator light to tell me when the pump is hot enough to start and can come on as needed to maintain temp.

I cracked all the injectors on the driver side and had a notable change in idle. Would a malfunctioning injector still produce a change in idle?


I did replace the filter. I did see some funky deposits on the top of the filter, but nothing bad on the actual elements. It has a 5 micron filter inline before the stock unit. I cant get the bottom to unscrew, so I removed it just to make sure I had good flow to the IP.
I get 10 psi of pressure before the IP, and it drops to around 5 psi when I rev the engine or step on the throttle.

I had my work's powerstroke diesel have a clogged fuel filter, the idle sounded almost like mine, but I had zero power, where as my truck still accelerates.

Would a broken injector tip ruin the piston/cylinder?

I guess my next action should be to pull and inspect the injectors, blow out the lines, clean and dry out tank.
The fun of buying used vehicles....
 
Welcome to the truck stop. Yes a bad injector will fluctuate idle-sometimes very little, sometimes make you think half a connecting rod is smacking the frame. Injectors not spraying right are the #1 way to put a hole in top of your piston.

I ran a lot of experimental fuels for major oil/fuel companies. Trust me, pull your injectors out and apart to clean & inspect them, it is well worth the effort. (Get good at it and do it annually w/ alternative fuels). Your trying to save cash most likely and having all the carbon out will help efficiency anyways. Are you doing timing change with your different fuel, a lower btu fuel requires a kick to the timing. I suggest go back to stock timing on #2 till running right. then retime when you get back to your magic fuel.

Best fuel pressure test is not just throttle up but actually driving it. Really consider an in cab meter with this engine, especially on home brew fuel. It will save lot if time in future diagnostics.
 
You got 8 cylinders. You don't need all of them. Seriously it will run on 6 or 7 of 8! :hihi:

Problem is after the injector fails the melted piston locks up leaving a loose rod and piston pin in the cylinder. This quickly ruins the shiny round oil and coolant separator known as a cylinder. After oil and coolant mix in an impressive smoke show... Your engine looks like this:
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/sh...ete-total-destruction-tear-down-1995-Suburban

Bugs in the fuel generates water and looks like this: (Kiss your entire fuel system goodbye from and including the tank, IP, and injectors. You may be able to flush the injector lines and fuel lines, maybe.)

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/sh...wth-in-ULSD-and-Biodiesel-This-can-affect-you!
 
So, its not running well with the 5 gal diesel tank?
Have any codes?
Im betting the IP is full of corrosion. Definately pull the injector lines and blow them out. With the one tank system everytime the engine is shut off and it cools the fats in the oil cling like cholesterol to the lines and everything else for that matter. Do you have heated injector lines? wont really matter anyway as the problem developes over time like plaque.
Obviously I cant say its your problem 100%, but its a cheap way to start.
Pull the injectors for sure and clean/rebuild them. If over 100K miles on them then get new.rebuilt ones.
You might even put a clear hose on return line of IP to check if air getting in may be the problem. Get the fuel rated clear hose from a lawnmower shop, not hardware store vynil stuff.
 
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