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HIGH mile 6.5L build thread...

restoguy

Active Member
Messages
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Location
NW Kansas
I'm starting a thread about the engine build for my '99 K3500. I'll start with a little more info about it and where I want to go with it. You can follow along as I get there. Feel free to add your thoughts, as some of you have far more experience with this kind of thing than I do!

I bought this rig in 2007 with 289,000 miles on the clock. It ran great, starts easy, no blow by, and it used no oil to speak of. I assumed that the engine had been replaced with in the last 50K miles and was probably a complete drop-in with turbo and injection system. It had a homemade PMD cooler and homemade extension harness already on it. Everything else was stock. The oil cooler lines were leaking something awful when I got it. After a few miles I became worried that I'd lose this good engine to a blown line. So I took the cooler lines out and plugged the ports. Just for a few days, until I could make arrangements for a better solution. Everything seemed fine at first, but a few days later I noticed that the hot idle oil pressure was nearly 0! A tap on the throttle brought the pressure up, but not to the level it had always carried before. This happened all-of-a-sudden, not gradually. A quick check of the oil on the dipstick showed metal flakes! Dang. Reminds me of when my '94 lost a cam bearing.

Fast forward 18 months. I tore the engine down this last week, and to my suprise all the cam bearings are where they belong! I found some metal on the oil pump pickup that I can't explain, and I still don't know what happend to the oil pressure! Also to my suprise I learned that the engine WAS NOT a replacement. It was the original engine with 291,000 miles!!! The block was cast 1 month before the truck was built(11/98), and the engine has not been rebuilt!(no internal marks what so ever) Had I not lost oil pressure, I wouldn't have opened it up becasue it ran so well. By reading the rings, I'd say it had maybe another 100k in it before it started using oil and getting weak.

So here I am with some decisions to make. I want to build it right the first time so I don't have to do it again. I just can't afford, or justify, the P400 I so desperately want. The 506 block looks to be crack free, the crank and other parts look to be completely usable. Should I re-use the stock crank or spend $350 on a Scat? Should I spend the money on splayed mains? If I spend the money and the block lets go, it's wasted.
I'm planning to add an exhaust, tune, and maybe a turbo before this is all over. I already get enough grief from Cummins/Powerstroke driving neighbors, the last thing I need is for it to grenade and have to do it all over again! Not to mention that my funding won't support two engine builds!

I'll post some pics of the parts, including the metal I found on the pickup screen, when I get my camera battery charged.
 
You should be able to get by with just bearings and rings depending on the condition of the bores. As long as the crack whore doesn't rare her ugly head.

Maybe a valve job.

The metal in the pickup was probably the drop in oil pressure. Still not good, however.

Waiting for pics.
 
The machinist will tell the story, but I'm thinking he'll want to bore it. There isn't much wear at the top of the cylinders, but there is some. It won't catch your finger nail, but it's there. The metal isn't bearing material. Well, some is, but the concerning part is iron shavings(not filings). Kind of like stripped bolt threads or something. I can't figure out where they came from! Maybe something left over from machining that didn't get cleaned out? I'm just guessing. I'll go see if my old camera will work for me until I can get the good one back on it's feet.....
 
By blocking the oil ports all the oil would then have to go through a bypass valve,unless you remove what looks like a freeze out plug. This is inside the filter base on the block,you would have to remove the oil filter adapter to see it.
 
OK, here's the pics of the metal I found on the pick up screen. The thin peices are ferrous, but the flakes aren't. The flakes are babbit, I'm sure. It almost looked like there had been coolant in the bearings at one time. I'm not sure what to make of that, but I guess it could have been from when the oil pressure was so low too. The iron pieces are what baffles me. They almost have a triangular shape like a thread that was stripped off something. This isn't my first engine by far, but I can't for the life of me figure out where they came from! Any ideas?

DSCF0583.jpg

DSCF0576.jpg

DSCF0575.jpg

DSCF0589.jpg


Dime is shown for reference only. It wasn't in the oil pan. I imagine most people would know that, but I can here the wise cracks already!
 
The longest peice would probably be 3" or so if I stretched it out. Here's a pic of the center main bearing. It's by far the worst, but several other main and rod bearings showed the same kind of patterns. It's kind of hard to see, but the first layer of babbit is eroded pretty badly. The other bearings were better.

DSCF0591.jpg
 
By blocking the oil ports all the oil would then have to go through a bypass valve,unless you remove what looks like a freeze out plug. This is inside the filter base on the block,you would have to remove the oil filter adapter to see it.

I looked for this info before I pulled the cooler but couldn't find it. A few others had pulled their coolers with no reported ill effects. I know better now!
 
Oil ring seperator? (spring looking thing)

Pop the cover off the oil pump. Could be interesting.

The bearing pictured has been hot but would still hold pressure.
 
I checked the bypass in the pump to see if it had something in it, but nothing was found. The spring was functioning, but I can't say how much pressure it would hold. I'll check the oil rings closer tomorrow, but I wasn't drawn to anything abnormal when I pulled the slugs out. I'm afraid of putting the engine back together and still having low oil pressure if I don't find the reason.
 
Intake was a little oily, but no different than any other 6.5 that I've taken apart. Actually better than most! It didn't smoke the least bit. The thing always ran like a new engine. I keep a close eye on my gauges, otherwise who knows how far I might have drove it. The oil pressure was the only indication that something was wrong. Off idle hot it carried 20lbs but it used to carry 45lbs. The metal on the dipstick was so small that you wouldn't have noticed it just checking/changing the oil. I looked specifically for it because I'd been here before when the cam bearing in my '94 decided to leave it's bore.
 
What about rockers? I've seen some pics of the early 6.2 cast rockers and I like the look of them. I think they'd provide less friction than the stamped ones I have now. Should I look for a set of these? I read someone (can't remember where) said they try to send every motor they build out the door with cast rockers, if they can find them. But an article about a certain magazine engine said the cast rockers didn't oil well and they swapped them out in favor of the newer stamped style. I'm going to call monday, but I'm positive I don't have the green to buy the Pennisular roller rockers I wish I could have. Let me hear your opinions.
 
The ferrous material could have been from not properly cleaning during the initial build.
 
That's what I'm leaning towards. I've never heard of that before, but stuff happens. I can't figure where else it would have come from. It may have been trapped safely in a corner until I plugged the cooler ports, thus causing the oil to change direction and bring the metal out of hiding.
 
That thought has crossed my mind as well. But then I don't have an explaination for the damage to the bearings and the babbit that was in the pan. I would have hooked a mechanical gauge to the engine to find out if there hadn't been metal in the oil.
 
Here's another question for you guys. I've heard that some blocks have nicks at the bottom of the cylinder where the tooling for squirters hit it. I've also heard that the blocks with this damage are more prone to cracking. Maybe this is all crazy talk, I don't know. Take a look a the pic and tell me if all squirt blocks are like mine or not. The extra machining is only on cylinder #8.

DSCF0593.jpg
 
Tomorrow the block will be at the machine shop. I have decided to stay with the stock crank and main caps. But I plan to use studs, top and bottom. If the block or crank lets go I can re-use everything else on another. Hopefully, it will last another 300K miles. Or at least until the gov'ment starts letting P400's out of the military! Anyone have a comment on the pic I posted above?
 
Look at the turbo.
That stuff could have been in the oil pump screen since mile 1.
These engines will hold oil pressure with copper showing in the bearings. Ask me how I know...

Did you do an oil analysis?
Possible fuel or coolant in the oil from something to thin it out.
Do you have a engine oil cooler in the radiator? Pinhole leak in that maybe.
Possible bypass is defective for oil cooler and you plugged off the engine oil...
Possible you are the 1st to overheat and thin out your oil without an oil cooler to the point of engine damage.
 
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