GM 6.5 tdsl marriage with a Allison 1000 5 spd 4WD

[great white]

Alright, someone's gotta say it; time for less talkin' more wrenchin'.....


Also, we're all familiar with Bill's trucks.

Many have seen them in person and talked at length with Bill about them.

No need to beat a dead horse....

 

[hp650]

Since reading all the posts online, some of the 6.2 and 6.5 ers do not even know how to get a diesel started after changing fuel injection pumps!!! Think of all the abuse that these engines have taken over the years, no start! get the ether! It still don't start, put in more ether! You can blow the head of the diesel with ether! As far as the connecting rod comming apart is concerned, you can't put in 40 psi and expect the engine to run for any length of time, the weakest link came apart, BEFORE YOU DID THE 40PSI BOOST, DID YOU TRUE THE CON RODS? DID YOU PUT IN NEW OR MIKED THE OLD PISTONS? DID YOU PUT ON NEW RINGS? ALL TO BE DONE FIRST!

The GM 6.2 and 6.5 dsl is a solid engine, Peninsular does the safe thing, only 320 hp!!!!!!!!~!! Bill Heath pressed the envelope and came up with something pretty good @ 500hp with about 700 to 800 ft lbs of torque.. I'm trying his formula, it's american old world technology before adjustable camshaft timing. The Jap Duramax has all the electronics to be a nightmare on the side of the road!!!!But it sure runs good when it runs and you can do a lot with it!!!

 

[great white]

Beg to differ.

The 6.5 has inherent flaws in the design as delivered from GM.

Push a regular production block too far and you'll see them.

Heck, regular production blocks fail under normal usage.

heads crack, main webs crack, cranks fail, etc, etc, etc.....

You're not telling anyone on the forum anything new by the way.

Sure, a few stumble in and are new to the design or novice wrenches, but there's a lot of 6.x experience on this board you haven't even seen yet.

Now, back to bolting an Allison to a 6.5; less talkin' more wrenchin'

 

[hp650]

I bought some military 6.2's and 6.5's, I believe they were like $150 each, so I can afford to blow up 1 or two or even three!!!! We are a bunch motor heads here in the shop. We haave a guy that runs a 6.5 mudtruck with 2 turbos, they only go 1/8 of a mile, but he has not blown up his engine, so I'm gonna go out to the (redneck yacht club) and check out his formula. My wife considers this (the boys and their toys).
As far as the 4l80E and the allison is concerned, a lot of good stuff, thnx for the info// I don't want to invent the wheel, I just want to make the ride smoother, a lot smooooother and stronger..., Once again a lot of knowledge here thnx guys, if I can help you guys with detroit's or Allisons just ask!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hp650]

Beg to differ.

The 6.5 has inherent flaws in the design as delivered from GM.

Push a regular production block too far and you'll see them.

Heck, regular production blocks fail under normal usage.

heads crack, main webs crack, cranks fail, etc, etc, etc.....

You're not telling anyone on the forum anything new by the way.

Sure, a few stumble in and are new to the design or novice wrenches, but there's a lot of 6.x experience on this board you haven't even seen yet.

Now, back to bolting an Allison to a 6.5; less talkin' more wrenchin'

I' all for that!!!!!

 

[great white]

If you have an international cast block and heads in those military takeouts, put you efforts into that.

Identifiable by the navistar diamond cast in the lifter valley.

The standard GM 6.x's are less likely to survive a "journey to the edge"....

 

[OrionThade]

opcorn:

 

[spennydj88]

goodness! 2012!!! I guess everyone lost interest. I guess I'll have to wake up this discussion.

I have a 1994 Chevy 3500HD. That is the GMT455 platform. Came from the factory with the 6.5TD powerplant. I want to ditch the 4L80E for an Allison transmission. I am going to make a Frankenstein transmission. I currently have a 2500 series Allison mainly for the ratios. going to put a 6-speed valve body in it, also have to install a parking paw and drum brake.

I know I need a 01-06 Duramax/Allison bell housing (SAE #8). I'm curious, what controller are you all running to make this all work? Do I need a manual transmission PROM for my OBD1 truck? I do for sure need a 6-speed controller as my truck has the 5.13 axle ratio and I'd like to get the RPMs around 2k@highway speed (70MPH)

 

[dbrannon79]

Welcome to the forum @spennydj88 I'm not familiar with this style trans, but is your engine equipped with an electronic DS4 IP or the mechanical DB2 IP? if the DS4, I would at this point recommend for you to convert it to all mechanical DB2, then there's no need for the factory PCM. just get a stand alone trans controller for your trans. you can find several kits that have all the harness and instructions, plus most kits are programmable for shift points and whatnot. EZ-TCU seems to be the way to go if they make one for the Allison trans. if not, then look at Holley or other reputable manufactures for a complete plug n play kit.

you'll be doing your self a favor with the DB2. no more failing PMD's or anything electronic to run the engine, plus you can run any color diesel including the famous "Black Gold" used motor oil!

it all depends on your budget. start a new thread with your build and we all will help spend your money.

be sure to add your truck detail in your signature so it will show each time you post and we can see what were working on. post up some pics too, we all love a little truck porn from time to time! LOL.

 

[Rockabillyrat]

I would swap to a DB2 then tune the original TCM for a medium duty that uses a TPS input. Then simply buy a factory Allison TPS and add it to the TCM harness. And since the DB2 uses a throttle cable you can mount the sensor to the injection pump. Actually you might be able to use the factory DB2 TPS sensor since it should be a 0-5v signal just like the factory Allison. That will make the swap even easier. I've swapped in a few Allison 2000s in place of the 454 in older 12v powered f550 this way. I tune them all with EFI live.

 

[MrMarty51]

I love seeing an old thread come back to life.
Welcome to the forum 88.

 

[spennydj88]

I would swap to a DB2 then tune the original TCM for a medium duty that uses a TPS input. Then simply buy a factory Allison TPS and add it to the TCM harness. And since the DB2 uses a throttle cable you can mount the sensor to the injection pump. Actually you might be able to use the factory DB2 TPS sensor since it should be a 0-5v signal just like the factory Allison. That will make the swap even easier. I've swapped in a few Allison 2000s in place of the 454 in older 12v powered f550 this way. I tune them all with EFI live.

Idk, I just installed my cruse control and I'm really liking it lol. I would loose that if I swapped to the db2. I honestly would have to find a parts truck with all the goodies before I consider swpooing. I do like the idea of running alternative fuels and it gets complicated when it's done properly. It's always best to start alternative fuel with engine at operating temperature and clear the fuel lines of the alternative fuel before setting the engine down. Best way to do this is running a dual fuel setup. 2 tanks, 1 diesel and the other of what ever. The trick is not to contaminate your diesel tank lol. Alternative fuel is just hard on the fuel system, gummy deposits and cokes up injectors. I would really have to crunch the numbers to be 100% sold. Lots of upfront cost. I'm not apposed to the idea. I've put some questionable fluids in my tank lol I'm surprised it didn't foul out the optic sensor lol but hey, nothing wrong with going a little farther for less lol

 

[Will L.]

Idk, I just installed my cruse control and I'm really liking it lol. I would loose that if I swapped to the db2. I honestly would have to find a parts truck with all the goodies before I consider swpooing. I do like the idea of running alternative fuels and it gets complicated when it's done properly. It's always best to start alternative fuel with engine at operating temperature and clear the fuel lines of the alternative fuel before setting the engine down. Best way to do this is running a dual fuel setup. 2 tanks, 1 diesel and the other of what ever. The trick is not to contaminate your diesel tank lol. Alternative fuel is just hard on the fuel system, gummy deposits and cokes up injectors. I would really have to crunch the numbers to be 100% sold. Lots of upfront cost. I'm not apposed to the idea. I've put some questionable fluids in my tank lol I'm surprised it didn't foul out the optic sensor lol but hey, nothing wrong with going a little farther for less lol

Db2 have cruise control also. It’s a little black box with a cable coming off it that attaches to the throttle linkage and 4 electrical wires- see pic (my rig is disassemble currently for rebuild).



As to the alternative fuels- yes the way you described is for bio fuels as needed for a ds4 ip.
And you could choose to run a db2 that way also. However most of us db2 guys that diy fuel use “black diesel”. One member here had a 6.2 powered Rover and he simply poured in used engine oil into his fuel tank - normally this is done 80% diesel 20% oil and thats it. Not my recommendation- I have done it. You get a lot of carbon on the injectors and valves- which wmi eliminates, but no wmi means build up.

Here is black diesel at its best imo:
Collect waste oil from local mechanic shops pumping it with a transfer pump through basic filters into a barrel in your truck bed never pulling off the bottom of tank but about 85% down to leave any water that may be there.
Go home and pump through the filters again into another barrel that has heater band on it of no forklift to unload. Heated up you run it through a centrifuge (pabiodiesel.com) into “first clean barrel” repeat process into “secondary clean barrel”, but only fill 50% (25 gallons) and put the other half into another “secondary clean barrel”
Add in 20% gasoline (5 gallons) and mix well. - usually people pour in the gas before the cleaned oil goes in for the mixing. Definitely use non ethonal gas if you can get it.

Now you simply pull out 2 samples each 1/8 cup in sealed container and put in the freezer. Next day test it- you are looking for gelling or the pre gelling point where it looks cloudy (cloud point).
The other sample you use for finding flash point.
Literally thermometer in it for temp, and strike a wooden match slowly it in the fuel. You are tryin to get a tiny puff of flame or actual ignition of the fuel. You repeatedly close the container, shake it up, warm it up a couple degrees and retest.
The temperature at which the fuel flashes a flame is known as the flash point.

Flash point
#2 diesel is 126f.
#1 diesel is 100f. (aka winter blend)

For #2 diesel (what you should target)
Gelling is supposed to begin no warmer than -10f. Any warmer than that you should suspect water in it becoming ice. This is true for diy or bought fuel. Since gasoline doesn’t gel, adding a higher percentage of gasoline raises gel point.
But more gasoline lowers the flash point. Too low of flash point means pre ignition in the engine. So you learn to measure and determine the ratio of gasoline into the oil for each batch.

What some people do so they don’t spend a million hours measuring and adjusting then remeasuring is get a bunch of barrels. Once you have the ratio for that mix of oil you just picked up for free, sometimes get paid to haul it off…
You need to mix all that oil together because some of it might be 10 wt and some might be 90 wt gear oil. So the percentage of gasoline that mixes in can need slight adjustments. But keep in mind this is the very picky way to do it, and usually guy’s doing this- we also use the Falex wear tester or similar to compare wear properties and do a certain amount of preferential oils like ATF to ensure it is good.

Which leads to the thinking of things like- why not make getting used atf from transmission shops a priority- which is excellent along with getting the mineral oil from high power electrical transformer rebuilding companies- there are many excellent sources besides just Joe’s quicky lube. You can have fuel that is better lubrication than the additives people buy.

Then use the centrifuge to periodically clean your own engine oil, transmission fluid, etc and extend their lifespan- especially helpful with really high quality (aka expensive) fluids.
Then when it’s done- it’s now your fuel too.

Sounds nice but remember you can NOT run black diesel in a ds4, nor most common rails.

 

[Will L.]

Forgot to say- in love with the idea of an ally 1000 in my hummer. So anxiously watching your outcome. I know a few guys that paid to have 1000 in place of their 4l80e and it was way expensive and all had issues with it.
If this has been eliminated my dream would be the ally 1000 and an Atlas transfer case.