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Fuel additives

Will L.

Will L.

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Boulder City Nv
Been a while since posting, and maybe this is something good to add to the “new guy check list” for them to learn.
There is a million fuel additives that do different things. The one I recommend for the Stanadyne ds4 is the Stanandyne Lubricity formula in the purple bottle. Below I will add a pic of the part numbers that change only based on size you buy. Some copy paste work might help because all forums end up loosing some pictures over time. Keeping part number searchable can help others long term.
NEVER use an emulsufier for the 6.2/6.5 diesel pumps. You want one like this one that separates the water so you can remove it from the fuel. This formula is focused on adding lubricant to replace the losses we have in ulsd and the added alcohols that make it worse.
Remember our parts were engineered for old diesel fuel so make the adjustments to keep them alive with the new ‘fake diesel’.


IMG_2716.jpeg
 
That same additive works for db2, db4 as well.

If a feller didn’t listen to the epa there are oils that are not low sulfur compliant that work better like dexron3 atf, conventional gear oil, etc. but these can not be run in high dosage amounts in the ds4 due to the optic sensor. I mention this part out of old lessons we learned to not do anymore because it can hurt the spotted tree whale, and get you in trouble with various gubmint agencies. Just a reminder in what used to be done, in some places, maybe.
 
Will L. said:
Been a while since posting, and maybe this is something good to add to the “new guy check list” for them to learn.
There is a million fuel additives that do different things. The one I recommend for the Stanadyne ds4 is the Stanandyne Lubricity formula in the purple bottle. Below I will add a pic of the part numbers that change only based on size you buy. Some copy paste work might help because all forums end up loosing some pictures over time. Keeping part number searchable can help others long term.
NEVER use an emulsufier for the 6.2/6.5 diesel pumps. You want one like this one that separates the water so you can remove it from the fuel. This formula is focused on adding lubricant to replace the losses we have in ulsd and the added alcohols that make it worse.
Remember our parts were engineered for old diesel fuel so make the adjustments to keep them alive with the new ‘fake diesel’.


View attachment 91670
Click to expand...
I was looking into this particular one since I have not seen it on shelves here locally. Noticed what it states about very dry and winter blends on top of what your pic shows for a mix ratio. 1:500 looking online it's showing a mix ratio of 1:1000. I assume the 1:500 is only for the 8oz bottle?
 
Here is an exert from Stanadyne Lubricity Formula. it shows the main ingredient to be paraffinic and naphthenic solvent, paraffinic solvent has the old sulfur in it's crude form. makes sense for how well it should lubricate in diesel fuel. it uses a mixture of both. I need to find a local place to buy from. so far the only place I've found is on the jungle site.

1736816653227.png

@Will L. what mix ratio do you recommend or use?
 
Idk
To be clear: for my db2 and injectors- which I can truthfully say hasn’t been on road in years (😂😂…🫤🫤…😭😭)
Post 2

And umm with the Sulfur when it is chemically combined with other elements as the "thio" in zinc dialkyldithiophospate antioxidant and antiwear agent, molybdenum dialkyltrithiocarbamate antiwear this is the golden mix we wish for - but alas if we found it we would ever run it in out fuel systems and soon won’t run it in oil because it kills polar tree whales. So no doing homework and finding those ingredients to add to your fuel.
 
Keep the water out and you've saved yourself from the witch's brew. Control the water. Adding lube will hurt the fuel system until you control the water. Water cannot, will not, mix with oil, petroleum, diesel, gas whatever. Basic chemistry.
 
3500GMC said:
Keep the water out and you've saved yourself from the witch's brew. Control the water. Adding lube will hurt the fuel system until you control the water. Water cannot, will not, mix with oil, petroleum, diesel, gas whatever. Basic chemistry.
Click to expand...
Oil and water dont mix- UNLESS you add an alcohol. You know, like ethonal, methonal, isopropyl.
Then the three all bind together.
Run 5% alcohol and you can put 2.5-3.5 % water in suspension in the oil.
Run 10% alcohol and you can run 5% - 7% water in suspension in the oil.
 
I had 3 people text me so far, 2 from here 1 from hml.
The optilube xpd is excellent stuff so long as it is not an emulsifier. Been too many years since I played in ds4 land.


Read between the lines what I personally run- just pure pump diesel because I don’t want to kill spotted tree whales. I am admitting to no murders on line either- 😂😂

Gobs and gobs of dark fuel smoothly flows through db2s that can’t go through ds4- which for the last 25ish years I just give away when I get them.
 
Will L. said:
Oil and water dont mix- UNLESS you add an alcohol. You know, like ethonal, methonal, isopropyl.
Then the three all bind together.
Run 5% alcohol and you can put 2.5-3.5 % water in suspension in the oil.
Run 10% alcohol and you can run 5% - 7% water in suspension in the oil.
Click to expand...
But still it does not mix. Suspension ASSUMES the fuel is kept moving. Water and oil will always separate at rest. Water and oil cannot mix.
 
I've heard good things on the optilube xpd but it's expensive. I wonder how it compares to the SLF. there's been lots of real testing on wear but none have tested what we want to see or their methods were not completely correct.

the little machine that does the wear scar testing doesn't look like it's intuitive or hard to do. I wonder if we can put together a "poor man's" machine to do some testing of our own!

other additives I would like to see tested and compared to these two would be the walmart's tcw3 2 cycle oil at 1:200 (16oz to 25 gal) if I did my math right. I've seen tests but not on the marine tcw3 variant. And maybe some tranny fluid though I have heard that tranny fluid can make diesel dryer than it is straight from the pump.

This is another thing I have been seeing, some additives weather it be "made for diesel" or some homebrew stuff, it can actually make things worse for the IP's and injectors including those that do great at a given mix ratio. folks seem to thing this much is good so more is better. 9 times out of 10 that is not the case and is actually the opposite!

side note, I just added the SLF to my monthly deliveries from the jungle site! two 16oz bottles for $23 delivered every other month. it's got to be better than nothing or the tcw3 from wally world I have been using. Though when I do run the tcw3 the engine is quieter than without!
 
3500GMC said:
But still it does not mix. Suspension ASSUMES the fuel is kept moving. Water and oil will always separate at rest. Water and oil cannot mix.
Click to expand...
Correct it doesn’t mix together and become a new composition.

So it travels along with it like a person carrying an open top 5 gallon bucket of poison.
The person walks through your kitchen and doesn’t get bumped into by anyone and doesn’t drop it (in suspension) then all the kitchen pots and pans and food is still safe.
But when someone bumps the person some spills onto the floor and a little splashes onto one of the counter tops. Then they hug the person incredibly strong they drop the whole bucket and the poison does damage to the food, the counter tops, the pots and pans…

That “bump” is the lift pump and worse at the transfer pump inside the ip. A little damage that once or twice really amounts to nothing but prolonged occurrences adds up to a bit of a problem.
That “hug” is the fuel getting compressed in the injection pump at a few thousand psi and again in the injector when it pops.

For new common rail systems the higher pressure pumps force it all out of suspension but not until it is leaving the pump, and the injectors are electronically opened so the damage to the injectors is not even as bad as it is to ours.

So the common “fix” for common rail systems is to try locking it into suspension.
Other than the cp4 the higher pressure pressures in new systems are engineered for ulsd unlike ours. They withstand the water in suspension.
It still damages them but not as rapidly because ours can’t handle the lack of lubricantion. And remember Alcohol and water are corrosive under pressure not a lube.

I am of the opinion to strip the fuel of as much water as possible by separation chemically since it bonds to the water to separate it - then it and the water get caught in the water separator.

Note that the factory filter is wholly inadequate. I push for the fass separator because it is the best I know of- could be better ones out there. I’m chasing other fish, don’t have time to research for hours currently. If someone finds one that is as good or better -show it. Same for the stanandynes ability to strip the water from suspension-if you can find a better one… post it.
Water that got into OLD REAL diesel fuel was easily separated. Now it is not. The fuel is no longer just hydrocarbons- the corn juice is a game changer. It is like tiny magnets (alcohol) to metal shavings (water) inside the aluminum shavings pile (hydrocarbon aka oil).

Now a guy can buy fuel, store it in a container without disturbing it for 3 months and most will separate. But so does the alcohol and since the alcohol burns so fast they now use less of the short molecule chain diesel and more of the longer chain because the alcohol will give an decrease in flash point so the thinner part of the diesel has to go away or it would ignite prematurely.
 
3500GMC said:
Agreed. Diesel fuel now is a blend of all the 'above' at best. Never know what you'll get.

Centrifugal separation like the WVO method? (To get a purer petroleum product...?) After all this stuff at the gas stations is stored out of sight, out of mind.

The best we can do is control the water.
Click to expand...
Yes but centrifuge fuel can be dangerous so you need to set it up and do volumes expecting to have it catch fire. Really rare but possible. Be an adult that can do dangerous things by planning ahead.

But centrifuge is an investment and takes a descent amount of time to do 20 gallons enough to separate 99%.

Far faster and cheaper is use the stanadyne and use the fass water separator filter.
And rather than dedicating a small shack away from the garage and house for the spinning flame of death (haha- so funny in my own mind) you put the filter on the truck with their wazoo pump that pumps 100 gph through the filters so by time 99% of the fuel gets to the ip… it has been through the separator and the filter many times so it has removed ridiculously high amounts of the water and the excellent fuel filter has polished the heck out of the dirt in the fuel.

The only reason to keep the ffm on once the big boy fass pump & filter is in place is the fuel heater. So remove the ffm to sell and pay for the screw in heater for the fass.
 
MrMarty51 said:
Howbout a fiver galloner bukket full.
www.finditparts.com

Stanadyne Diesel Corp 38562 - Diesel Fuel Additive - Lubricity Formula, 5 Gallon Pail | FinditParts

Stanadyne Diesel Corp 38562 Diesel Fuel Additive - Lubricity Formula, 5 Gallon Pail ✓ Order now for same-day shipping on eligible purchases from FinditParts.com, America's online marketplace for heavy duty parts.
www.finditparts.com www.finditparts.com
Click to expand...
Let us know on shelf life
How much fuel does 5 gallon treat ?

If anybody lives close enough together, they could split 5 gallons, if the bulk savings is enough to make it worthwhile
 
dbrannon79 said:
I've heard good things on the optilube xpd but it's expensive. I wonder how it compares to the SLF. there's been lots of real testing on wear but none have tested what we want to see or their methods were not completely correct.

the little machine that does the wear scar testing doesn't look like it's intuitive or hard to do. I wonder if we can put together a "poor man's" machine to do some testing of our own!

other additives I would like to see tested and compared to these two would be the walmart's tcw3 2 cycle oil at 1:200 (16oz to 25 gal) if I did my math right. I've seen tests but not on the marine tcw3 variant. And maybe some tranny fluid though I have heard that tranny fluid can make diesel dryer than it is straight from the pump.

This is another thing I have been seeing, some additives weather it be "made for diesel" or some homebrew stuff, it can actually make things worse for the IP's and injectors including those that do great at a given mix ratio. folks seem to thing this much is good so more is better. 9 times out of 10 that is not the case and is actually the opposite!

side note, I just added the SLF to my monthly deliveries from the jungle site! two 16oz bottles for $23 delivered every other month. it's got to be better than nothing or the tcw3 from wally world I have been using. Though when I do run the tcw3 the engine is quieter than without!
Click to expand...
Do you have a link to the SLF on Amazon?

I've used quite the variety of additives over the years.

I ran mostly B11 ran through a 5 filter bank, ending with 2 micron filters out of the storage tank.

I wish they would get fuel with a long shelf life back around here.
Last I checked there was some available in California, but shipping for 300 to 500 gallons was prohibitive.

I'd mix additives and fuel for 500 gallons at a time. I'm not sure what I'm doing anymore. We never got fuel delivered last year and are thinking about just using the 300 gallon tank this year. If I get to it.

Amsoil - which seems to have been a waste of money,

Ashless 2 stroke oil about 500 to 1

Power Service White and gray.

No alcohol Gasoline - about 500 to 1 - usually whatever mixed 2 stroke oil I had left over at the time we were filling the tank. Then a gallon of 2 stroke oil to match.
Now we use the premix 2 stroke from the stores.

Schaefer's that never seems to be included in any testing. Kind of like The Rudolph of additives.

Optilube

John Deere

Bug Killers

Power Service Clear Diesel

Power Service Bio Klean

 
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