Custom tranny cooler lines/remote filter??

[bk95td]

I've run into a challenge on my 94 k2500hd "599" project truck. The truck was not equipped from the factory with a tranny cooler outside the radiator. The steel cooler lines have been cut and spliced several times and appear to be rusted out now.:sad:
My original plan to fix this was to just bend up a set of new steel lines and get another cooler the same as the engine oil cooler. I have extra mounting brackets to mount the cooler. I emailed Leroy[PMDCable.com] to get another cooler. He suggested adding a remote transmission filter as long as I was at it. Sounds like a great idea to me.:thumbsup:
Has anyone else made custom tranny cooler lines ? If so what type of lines/fittings did you use? What brand remote filter mount? Pics would be great.
Thanks in advance for any help, Barry

 

[Turbine Doc]

Barry, take a look a Deralles remote cooler kit, I have one under the bed of the truck 25K rated with electric fan comes on @ 180F return temp, spliced into the return line back to the pan comes with all fittings and hose required. I also added a PML cast aluminum deep pan which adds an extra 3.75 qt trans fliud, pan acts as a heat sink also.

Cooler was acquired from Summit, and pan came from PML website (yourcovers.com) directly, same as Mag Hi tech IMO but less $$$ especially when buying the sand cast (un painted) finish.

 

[bk95td]

Thanks Tim.
I guess I left a couple of details out.I don't plan on using the cooler in the radiator and I'd like all threaded connections. No hose clamps. From my experience, The type of hose that comes with the coolers will only last a couple years before it starts getting mushy. Steel tube and or braided stainless is what seems most durable. The idea of getting the heat away from the radiator is good.I have a PML pan on my 95 LD. Very heavy duty. The bad: cost[well over$300] and the fact that the crossmember must be removed to remove the pan.[can't get to rear bolts]

 

[Turbine Doc]

Thanks Tim.
. No hose clamps. From my experience, The type of hose that comes with the coolers will only last a couple years before it starts getting mushy. Steel tube and or braided stainless is what seems most durable. The idea of getting the heat away from the radiator is good.I have a PML pan on my 95 LD. Very heavy duty. The bad: cost[well over$300] and the fact that the crossmember must be removed to remove the pan.[can't get to rear bolts]

X2 on the lines with hose clamps I lost the trans early when hose came loose with a single clamp, which is why when the project engine goes in I'll be swapping to steel compression x AN adapters on the radiator cooler lines, and braided steel to the remote Deralle.

Curious as to why you aren't using the radiator trans cooler, also curious as to why you have to pull cross member, my pan held on by cap screws, comes off easily with hex bit socket, maybe a difference by the years or K1500 short box extended cab has different clearance.

As for PML pan I'd put that on the vehicle that is the heavy hauler, my factory pan on the burb is sufficient for quantity and temp control, but the burb also has radiator & OEM in grille tranny coolers.

 

[redshift96]

Thanks Tim.
I guess I left a couple of details out.I don't plan on using the cooler in the radiator and I'd like all threaded connections. No hose clamps. From my experience, The type of hose that comes with the coolers will only last a couple years before it starts getting mushy. Steel tube and or braided stainless is what seems most durable. The idea of getting the heat away from the radiator is good.I have a PML pan on my 95 LD. Very heavy duty. The bad: cost[well over$300] and the fact that the crossmember must be removed to remove the pan.[can't get to rear bolts]

Here's one approach: http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/catalog/catalog_inc/viewitem.php?ITEMID=291

(Pretty sure there's no competitive product from any site sponsors, correct me if I'm wrong.)

I don't see a set listed for the 4L80E, or any of the diesel applications for that matter. Gassers don't have the crossover lines, I gather. But this kind of setup wouldn't be tough to cobble up yourself. The main advantage I note is that you get the durability of hard lines underneath where it's needed, along with some flexibility at the tank connections (or where you feed through the rad support if using an aux cooler instead/as well as the rad tank), where it comes in very handy when trying to align the factory fittings. (At least on the older models with inverted flare fittings.)

 

[bk95td]

X2 on the lines with hose clamps I lost the trans early when hose came loose with a single clamp, which is why when the project engine goes in I'll be swapping to steel compression x AN adapters on the radiator cooler lines, and braided steel to the remote Deralle.

Curious as to why you aren't using the radiator trans cooler, also curious as to why you have to pull cross member, my pan held on by cap screws, comes off easily with hex bit socket, maybe a difference by the years or K1500 short box extended cab has different clearance.

As for PML pan I'd put that on the vehicle that is the heavy hauler, my factory pan on the burb is sufficient for quantity and temp control, but the burb also has radiator & OEM in grille tranny coolers.

The reason I'm not planning on using the cooler in the radiator is that a while back War Wagon explained why it was a myth that you have to use it. Once the tranny is up to temp,you can't get rid of the heat fast enough. In cold weather the cooler will make the oil colder because the cooler is on the cold side of the radiator. A thermostatic bypass is the ideal set up. Oil only circulates untill it's up to temp. Same as the engine.
If you look on PML's site you'll see that the older 4l80es use a different pan from your's. It is full depth all the way to the rear :mad2::mad2:. The newer style that tapers won't fit because of clearance issues inside.
Got any pics of your set-up?

 

[Turbine Doc]

Yes I have pics, somewhere I don't know if with me here or in Ms, I'll have a look see, if not I have my camera, and depending when I get out of school tomorrow & weather permitting if I can't find them I'll shoot some more.

 

[Turbine Doc]

Found these Barry, they are old as the Walbro isn't installed and I have the old Banks exhaust and wrapped crossover on it still in these pics.

 

[SnowDrift]

The reason I'm not planning on using the cooler in the radiator is that a while back War Wagon explained why it was a myth that you have to use it. Once the tranny is up to temp,you can't get rid of the heat fast enough. In cold weather the cooler will make the oil colder because the cooler is on the cold side of the radiator. A thermostatic bypass is the ideal set up. Oil only circulates untill it's up to temp. Same as the engine.

While, I'm not a transmission guy, I will only comment here on my experience. I used to believe the same way until I saw it actually work differently over the road.

If I'm towing down the highway and don't stop, I usually don't see the temp get up to the first mark of 140F. If I stop and sit in traffic, then I might start to see it rise if it's hot outside. I've seen it hit near 200 while sitting in a traffic jam. As soon as I get back out on the open road, though, it will pull down to 170 and below. I've even seen it back all the way down to near 140 again as it is routed through the radiator first and then through the external stacked plate cooler.

My thought used to be that the temp would have to stay around 200 deg. F if it routed through the radiator first, then through the ext. cooler, but that doesn't happen with mine. You can do what you want, but I just believe that with a good clean radiator, the factory setup like this is more than adequate.

 

[Turbine Doc]

Most of the time I run/ light tow with the Derale switched off, temps usually well below 170 there is some cooling effect via natural air flow through the Deralle, if I expect to be in heavy traffic on a hot day or towing heavy 10K+ then I activate the electric fan, (reason for this) if it's not running it isn't wearing out or adding extra current draw on the electrical system when I don't need it.

 

[bk95td]

Yep, You have the newer style tranny pan. Judging by how much dirt is in the cooler i'm starting to doubt that under the bed is a good location. I live on a gravel road. Lots of sand and mud thrown up under the truck.
I thought of the other reasons to not use the cooler in the radiator. If the trans overheats, it doesn't fry the engine with it. Same goes the other way. If the engine overheats, it doesn't take the tranny with it. Now to find a thermostatic bypass valve.

 

[bk95td]

While, I'm not a transmission guy, I will only comment here on my experience. I used to believe the same way until I saw it actually work differently over the road.

If I'm towing down the highway and don't stop, I usually don't see the temp get up to the first mark of 140F. If I stop and sit in traffic, then I might start to see it rise if it's hot outside. I've seen it hit near 200 while sitting in a traffic jam. As soon as I get back out on the open road, though, it will pull down to 170 and below. I've even seen it back all the way down to near 140 again as it is routed through the radiator first and then through the external stacked plate cooler.

My thought used to be that the temp would have to stay around 200 deg. F if it routed through the radiator first, then through the ext. cooler, but that doesn't happen with mine. You can do what you want, but I just believe that with a good clean radiator, the factory setup like this is more than adequate.

It is my understanding that the tranny fluid goes through the external cooler first and then into the radiator. That was how the directions on many add-on tranny coolers that I've installed explained it in their instructions.

 

[Turbine Doc]

Yes I had to add a rock shield to the fan of the cooler, when hunting I run unimproved roads, mud & gravel can get between the fan blade & cooler fins without the shield made fro perforated sheet metal with 1/16" holes,.

My 1st fan motor burned up without the rock shield, the supplied fuse was too big it should have gone 1st, this is also another reason I have a power switch now for the fan as I can power off the fan until I flush the mud out from under it, new fan/motor have lasted now 5 years. I monitor both trans & coolant temps all the time so if either start climing out of range I have plenty of warning

 

[Burning oil]

http://perma-cool.com/Catalog/Contents.html
Check this out. If you need anything/prices let me know.
Barry, top right option in the link "trans filter" is what I had in mind.
They also offer one with a temp gauge.

 

[Burning oil]

http://perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page14.html

 

[SnowDrift]

It is my understanding that the tranny fluid goes through the external cooler first and then into the radiator. That was how the directions on many add-on tranny coolers that I've installed explained it in their instructions.

Radiator cooler first, then to the external. My wife's gasser Burban and my truck are both the same way from the factory. I added one to my '90 gasser years back and that's how I plumbed it, as well.

 

[redshift96]

Radiator cooler first, then to the external. My wife's gasser Burban and my truck are both the same way from the factory. I added one to my '90 gasser years back and that's how I plumbed it, as well.

Which makes perfect sense... Liquid:liquid heat transfer is more efficient than liquid:air, so might as well take advantage of the available capacity of the radiator first, then on to the less efficient liquid:air auxiliary trans cooler.

 

[ak diesel driver]

also in cold weather it helps warm the tranny fluid

 

[bk95td]

Which makes perfect sense... Liquid:liquid heat transfer is more efficient than liquid:air, so might as well take advantage of the available capacity of the radiator first, then on to the less efficient liquid:air auxiliary trans cooler.

My belief is that the cooling system is undersized or marginal. By removing the transmission heat it can only help keep the engine cooler. Where the tranny cooler is located in the radiator it is heating the coolant that is being sucked into the engine. The cooler is on the wrong side of the radiator.
How many trannys have fried as a result of the engine overheating?

 

[SnowDrift]

My belief is that the cooling system is undersized or marginal.

I guess I don't agree with that. Since I put in a new radiator a few years back, I've just not had cooling issues with mine at all. The occasional +30,000 lb. load is about always when it's above 90 degrees outside and I run the air conditioning.

Even though the location wouldn't work for me, I really like TD's fan idea on his remote cooler. He tows heavy on occasion, too, and his whole year is near where our summers are, so it's always warm when he's doing it.