Can Heating Oil be used safely as Diesel for off road use

[DieselAmateur]

Given how much conflicting misinformation is on the internet, I wanted to ask the crowd here, in particular our residential fuel expert @Will L.

To be clear, I am asking only about use in farm and off road construction equipment. Dyed fuel in on road applications is illegal and not endorsed.

Even with fuel prices dropping it's still decently over $3 a gallon here and bulk off road is selling for around $2.50/ gal as of this writing. There is a nearby source selling home heating oil for $2/ gallon

I've read two conflicting accounts that heating oil has both lower and higher BTUs than diesel, and that if the BTU is higher than diesel it can damage engines.

I've also read that heating oil can potentially have a higher sulfur content, which apparently won't play nice with common rail engines.

The engines in question are Kubota diesel engines, 2010 year that still use rotary mechanical injection pumps. Possibly an older CAT dozer that also is all mechanical.

For these (relatively) older diesels, is it safe to run home heating oil in place of diesel? Any additives recommended? Or safer to blend with regular diesel at a specific percentage?

 

[JayTheCPA]

Looks like the core questions were already answered.

The key is finding out the underlying chemistry of the specific home heating fuel. Regarding sulfur, chances are good that the content is ULSD as the home fuels are moving away from the old higher sulfur content as even in home use it causes problems like flu erosion and equipment degradation. So, seems like a good idea to backtrack to the supplier and find out the specs for that home use fuel.

Another potential way to save on fuel costs for the older equipment is to blend in some black diesel. But this will require up-front costs to heavily filter the oil stock, and ability to store the oil for a while to let particulates settle prior to filtration.

For my diesel tractor which has a mechanical pump, I am using automotive / OTR and add some lubrication to offset the lower sulfur content. This is mostly from convenience as the automotive diesel source is much closer than any non-taxed sources. I honestly have no idea whether this is helping the life of the tractor or not as my annual fuel consumption is nowhere near what a farmer or construction company uses. But it at least makes me feel good knowing that the tractor starts each time without complaint.

 

[Will L.]

you can’t trust what the seller of the fuel says- many lie to skirt the epa.

Basically you need to test the fuel you are considering using. I dealt with a company in Tx that was producing home heating oil from waste tires- insanely high sulfur content. They were selling before states started regulating heating oil sulfur content. Since that started they are selling to some places that don’t regulate yet and some companies that blend it in and don’t get tested often. (Shh- epa doesn’t know).

Idk which labs do fuel testing currently. Learning to diy would be worth it because you can start with the heating oil and add in either heavier or lighter oil/fuel as needed to get the BTU & Flash point right. The other big concern is gel point.

Idk about it because we don’t use it here.

But here is some info to start with:

Fuel Type	Carbon Output (pounds per gallon)
Gasoline	19.60
Diesel	22.40
Kerosene	21.50

Gasoline	120,286 BTUs
Diesel	137,381 BTUs
Kerosene	131,890 BTUs

Fuel Type	Flash Point
Gasoline	-45 °F
Diesel	126 °F
Kerosene	100 °F

Fuel Type	Autoignition Temperature
Gasoline	536 °F
Diesel	410 °F
Kerosene	428 °F

Fuel Type	Weight (gallon)	Weight (liter)
Gasoline	6.2 pounds	1.6 pounds
Diesel	6.9 pounds	1.8 pounds
Kerosene	6.8 pounds	1.8 pounds

So find the specs for heating oil and basically try getting the heating oil to similar specs.
Flashpoint is important to the engine running right.
Btu loss is like running summer blend vs winter blend.
Too much BTU - umm I doubt it. Everything I found said 120,000-125,000 btu for heating oil.

Lower btu means less power from the engine per rpm but doesn’t burn as hot so you can push it harder for power needs without causing overheating.

 

[WarWagon]

There is a nearby source selling home heating oil for $2/ gallon

What are other nearby sources selling home heating oil for?

High sulfur, if that is indeed high, is a 2007+ DPF concern not the HPCR itself. It would also contaminate engine oil the old fashioned way lowering the TBN.

Curious what %, if any, of Biodiesel is mixed in? It's an easy button used in ULSD to add lube to it.

Next question is how dry is the home heating oil with respect to lube? IMO it doesn't need as much lube as the higher pressure engine injection systems so it may be dryer ULSD than off-road.

It's not the lack of sulfur, but, the removal process that strips the lube out of diesel fuel.

End of the day IF you have a fuel problem like bugs in the fuel, locked up injection pump from not enough lube in ULSD, and you are using it "off label" you may have trouble getting the fuel supplier to pay for engine damage.

 

[DieselAmateur]

Thank you for the figures Will and for others chiming in. The "other source" is simply a fellow on marketplace selling heating oil likely sourced from people converting to propane or electric heat pumps. Lots of folks nearly giving away the stuff, saying come and get it but you have to pump it out yourself. So I imagine this guy has pumped out numerous tanks and is selling the surplus oil for a relatively easy profit.

I am curious as to who offers testing. How that works via mail may be difficult. Guess I'll look into how to test for flash point

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

I hauled fuel for many years, I am 99.9% sure high sulfur diesel is not produced anywhere in the US any longer. The terminal s in the South East don't have a separate holding tank, all diesel is in the same tanks period, I know this is a fact here anyway... When off-road is loaded the only thing different is dye is injected at the nozzle to the tanker... Off road is fuel oil....

 

[JayTheCPA]

If there is high confidence that the stuff is from home fuel sources, perhaps consider getting a some of the "5KW" cko diesel parking heaters (don't waste paying more money for the "8KW" ones as I have yet to see where there is a physical difference between the units) and use them for engine pre-heat, heating work sheds, and perhaps plumbing them as aux heat for the house. If the tractor's shed is enclosed, heat the whole shed which also heats the tractor. These things only need diesel fuel and a 12v power source. I'd make sure the fuel gets filtration given the unknown source(s).

Better yet, rather than pay $2/gal, beat the marketplace guy to the next ad looking for somebody to do a pump-out.

 

[Will L.]

If you are running it in your 6.5 and want to be safe about it, you will spend money for testing and will be cutting it into the diesel you buy.

The oil contamination is a mixed bag. Sulfur itself isn’t a lubricant but its presence is. It combines with trace amounts of nickel in the fuel oil along with nickel in the metal and becomes an amazing lubricant. Yes the TBN (total base number) of the engine oil lowers, which is a result of the acidic rise. See, sulfur is acidic- thats why we had acid rain- the sulfur molecules get broken free, combine with hydrogen atoms and make hydrochloric acid. Bad stuff. However the sulfur combines with the nickle much sooner and at a much greater proportion so it increases lubricant count on the scale by a factor of ten more than it kets the acid eat stuff.
Ya know how there is the old timers that would use old oil and rarely change it? In gas engines it sludged up quickly and killed engines and diesels they would note a reduction in power & mpg. Then fill the crankcase with a quart of diesel for the last 1 or 2 hundred miles then change oil. Usually doing this in 10,000 mile intervals instead of just oil at 3,000. And the engine would last just as long. But you can’t do that anymore. Ulsd is why.

Loosing the sulfur means you loose the “high pressure compaction” of it.
Think about stinky differential oil a minute. How many old trucks used to run 250,000, 350,000 miles and people never once changed the diff oil. Usually a seal leak was why they even messed with it. How many of us just opened the fill plug, couldn’t feel with finger tip and topped it off? I did it all the time, personal, customer, and fleet. How did they survive? And why is it so stinky? Sulfur. Gobs and gobs of sulfur. Thats why diff gears live under the extreme load they do and never fail. When there is a failure its almost always a design flaw by the engineers in saving money somewhere. Clutch packs and other nonsense that needs special additives which counter act the massive sulfur content.

So if I had my hands on some high (actually normal) sulfur diesel, heating oil, kerosene, etc. would I run it in my 6.5? Why no officer/epa representative I wouldn’t because it is against the law. Same reason I don’t recommend it to other people online, in public view, etc. Now, if say zombies took over the world and the government lost existence, and we were not concerned with the creation of acid rain from burning sulfur anymore- but my daily fight for life consisted of me trying to get the most life from a 6.5 ? Yup. In a heartbeat. Heck, use of old school gear oil as a fuel additive into ulsd to extend the db2 life isn’t a bad idea, in those post apocalyptic situations, right now it is bad because acid rain is a real thing that I don’t deny- seriously. Thats why most the world switched to ulsd EVEN IN heating oil. So I have to say- statistically speaking it probably is not high sulfur (2,000 ppm vs lsd 500 ppm vs ulsd 15ppm).

There is arguments made that removing the sulfur is removing other components and that is what reduces lubricity. The process was blamed and I USED TO accept that answer myself. However, not many people went through the trouble of having ulsd then adding back in just sulfur. Funny thing, when you start with 2100ppm and remove it to 10 ppm. Then add back 2,000 ppm the net result is not 2100. It ends up at 2000-2025. The extra tends to get converted into other compounds and ya know what happens in the end? It synthesizes and becomes more lubricative than it was originally. Hmm. So now if you only add back half the sulfur it still synthesizes, is almost as good as original and is less stinky coming out of the differential- could be there is at least one oil company making their gear oil with this as part of their production technique. And they like it because the removal of sulfur- part of it is getting rid of that sulfur somewhere.
Sorry for side tangent.

NO ONE should run high sulfur oils or fuels as fuels in modern diesels because the exhaust system will plug up like a first timer eating nothing but MREs.
You will be replacing the cat and muffler very very soon.

As for people in Mexico where even though the law was passed in 2018 to make everyone sell only ulsd, they just passed a new law to try implementing the old one by 2030. If you drive a new diesel into Mexico on vacation- I never suggest altering exhaust system because thats illegal here and maybe there(?) but if my imaginary twin brother Bill did it, he would make a temporary test pipe and put it in place of pipes full of metals and stuff.
Same thing Bill would do in parts of AK-HI (you know the gun greeting places- surely don’t confuse that with the states mr epa guy).

Back to the crankcase oil issue-other than doing the lab testing to see when the oil needs replacing, or treat it as it would have been done from 1900-1990.

I know guys who only buy fuel from one place because they are worried that a different station will have something unknown. I know guys who invest in the Mr.Funnel or similar brands- and use it during fill ups. One guy will go fill up a barrel of fuel at the gas station, take it home and use the funnel at home. He actually gets so much water that he makes a video and shows the store owner- who refunds 2:1 fuel cost. He lives in Georgia. Now thats all water right- not sulfur. So why bring that up? Because water in your modern fuel is a FAR LARGER problem with WAY more impact to the health of the ip, injectors, engine oil than too much, too little sulfur. And simply filtering it out is the solution- but still I only said I know SOME GUYS that do it. Most don’t. It’s risk vs reward. It’s $ & time investment vs chances of problems. Individually - you have to decide.

I promote the FASS water separation filter and their pump as a unit because cost & convenience offset. Little to no $ - spend your time and use the filter funnel at the station. Invest more time and another $30 for the funnel and do both for best results and longer filter life.

Treat the fuel itself same way. Buy it cheap and just run it mixed 50/50 with diesel. Because it is coming out of old tanks - pre filter it through a water seperation filter of some kind and an extremely low micron filter before ever putting into your truck is best. (2 micron ish) remember “absolute” means 100% and “nominal” means average so a 2 micron absolute is way better than a 2 nominal - but it takes longer to filter through it. At home going from one barrel (or jerry can) to another- so what? Use an old lift pump or even gravity and let er rip…or drip.
I would at a minimum do that.
Zombie day fueling: slow soak through a CLEAN towel or even Tshirt is better than nothing as a prefilter. A CLEAN new chamois works as a water separator but oh man you will be there a while.

There is always a way to trade your time in place of money you don’t have or want to spend. I will be doing more of that today on tires with an XY table & a planer to stop out of round shake from tires that still have 25% life on them. Hopefully. Or I will ruin all 4 and have to replace them this week. It’s all a gamble. Diy oil change and spend time/save money/ know you did it right vs pay some kid and save aggravation & time but hope he tightens filter & plug properly, hope he actually greases, checks things, etc.

50/50 bought fuel & bought heating oil after cleaning- not worth 100 gallons.
But on the regular long term- it could absolutely pay off. Finding out by going 75/25 and no hiccups- then going 100% … could easily make it worth it.

If it was a db2 instead of a ds4 it gets really easy to make it worth it. The db2 handles a lot more atf or gear oil added to ensure diy fuel is ok. If you aren’t installing wmi for cleaning purposes then doing the water bottle trick the day before every oil change is smart. Keep those injector tips clean. Not a bad idea even on regular fuel.

Just remember to never ever break any laws or do anything to make pea aep epa or anyone else in the gubmint upset. They can put a whoopin on ya - thats why I always listen to exactly what they say…

 

[jrsavoie]

The fuel oil around here comes out of the diesel tanks. They don't sell enough to have fuel oil storage.

If they're going to fill a 275 gallon fuel oil tank, they don't even always add the die.
Once it's in the fuel oil tank, it's going to be light pink, if the tank was as empty as they get.