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Brainstorm session Turbo and N/A together

Burning oil

Burning oil

LeroyDiesel.com
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Im making some adapter manifolds for the ATT. I got to thinking if I did not close off one of the ends I could run some duct work to it. It could have a tee into the stock air filter or its own filter.
In the duct work have something as simple as a flap valve. The basic idea it to let it N/A while not under a load then as soon the turbo builds pressure the flap closes. Now you'd have turbo power again.
The whole idea behind it is to increase MPGs, but will N/A by itself do anything or would a tune be required also to reduce fuel curve?
Im thinking a multi tune of some kind, it would have to automatically switch though, say at a predetermined boost # or ???
I think the idea is there just wanted to run it buy you guys.

DSCF1090.jpgDSCF1092.jpg
 
The improvement of n/a is the free flowing exhaust. the added pressure is always good even at idle as the positive displacement on top of the piston on the intake stroke works less instead of have to "suck in" the air. If you used an exhaust dump valve to divert around turbo maybe?

I have been thinking about a solenoid as the adjusting rod for a tm so that at hiway speed I could just flip a switch for bypassing when the boost isn't needed. (Since I am stuck in the no bigger turbo world).
 
With the ATT MPGs are up in most reported cases. Thats because the exhaust flows better.
So you don't think benefit would come from a N/A-turbo combo?

Again just brainstorming: What if you had a DS exhaust manifold with dual outlets. One to turbo and one on an exhaust cut out valve joining the main exhaust stream before muffler or a dual exhaust set up. The cut off valve would stay open bypassing turbo until boost is called for. Would that cause some kind of unbalance from bank to bank?
 
You just need to do it after the two join, but before going into the turbo. Custom t- flange/valve. Good in theory, just hard to fit. If you figure out that part, then having a similar valve for the intake would come into play. Ever seen the old roots blower with the bypass door? Same idea.
 
Leroy, I like your thinking. Keep it up. If I could get a little more mileage, I could park my 5 cylinder colorado that gets same mileage as my 6.5. I'm forced to drive it cause gas is cheaper.
 
Here is a tangent for you: heated intake.

I have kicked around the idea in my head (yeah, I know, dangerous territory) of how to take advantage of the Cummings pre-heater grid system in order to eliminate the glow plugs. IIRC, the Cummings heater is in the intake manifold, but I want to move it outside of the normal air flow so that it is not a restriciton 100% of the time. Additional challenge is not messing up the airflow with a design that allows vortexes.

The adapter looks like an excellent platform to allow 'switching' of air inputs (via a flapper) and adding the heater grid looks like it might fit the mold. Thoughts?
 
Will L. said:
You just need to do it after the two join, but before going into the turbo. Custom t- flange/valve. Good in theory, just hard to fit. If you figure out that part, then having a similar valve for the intake would come into play. Ever seen the old roots blower with the bypass door? Same idea.
Click to expand...
Have not see that bypass door. Got a link? I'll google and see what I can find.

hookedup50 said:
Leroy, I like your thinking. Keep it up. If I could get a little more mileage, I could park my 5 cylinder colorado that gets same mileage as my 6.5. I'm forced to drive it cause gas is cheaper.
Click to expand...
Thank you, It hurts my head. It would be great to have more economy and power when you need it.

JayTheCPA said:
Here is a tangent for you: heated intake.

I have kicked around the idea in my head (yeah, I know, dangerous territory) of how to take advantage of the Cummings pre-heater grid system in order to eliminate the glow plugs. IIRC, the Cummings heater is in the intake manifold, but I want to move it outside of the normal air flow so that it is not a restriciton 100% of the time. Additional challenge is not messing up the airflow with a design that allows vortexes.

The adapter looks like an excellent platform to allow 'switching' of air inputs (via a flapper) and adding the heater grid looks like it might fit the mold. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I've only thought about a heated intake for a gasser. You'll have power loss, but suppose to gain MPGs.
I like the idea of the Cummins heater. I wonder it they have a 100% duty cycle? I wonder if the extra load on alt would suck up any gain?
Maybe a heat exhange from the exhaust to run hot air to intake.
Im not even sure hot air on a diesel would do anything for fuel efficiency anyway, what have you all heard on that?
 
Burning oil said:
I've only thought about a heated intake for a gasser. You'll have power loss, but suppose to gain MPGs.
I like the idea of the Cummins heater. I wonder it they have a 100% duty cycle?

No it is for starting and emissions only. This was a tangent thought.

Im not even sure hot air on a diesel would do anything for fuel efficiency anyway, what have you all heard on that?
Hot air hurts power and MPG.
Click to expand...

Leory,
You should try a BD spool valve with your ATT. I have gone from near 14MPG to over 16 MPG with it on the 1995 4x4 3/4T burb and ATT. The jury is still out on cooking engine oil with it. I have a spare lengthened downpipe adapter you can have. If it doesn't work you can still get top dollar for the valve used. I seriously doubt you would take it off after running a spool valve. :hihi: Your MPG may vary due to the precups I have just giving me weird results.

So I am switching to synthetic for sure and maybe even going to try AMSOIL next... :eek:
 
Burning oil said:
Im not even sure hot air on a diesel would do anything for fuel efficiency anyway, what have you all heard on that?
Click to expand...

Looks like we might have slightly different thoughts in mind.

Am not thinking about heating the air while the engine is running, am thinking about using the heater element that the new Cummings use *in place of* glow plugs. So, overall thought is to install the the heater grid in a secondary intake port for use during the start cycle and (maybe) remove the GP's completely (or leave them in for after-glow or back-up in case the heater element fails).
 
WarWagon said:
Leory,
You should try a BD spool valve with your ATT. I have gone from near 14MPG to over 16 MPG with it on the 1995 4x4 3/4T burb and ATT. The jury is still out on cooking engine oil with it. I have a spare lengthened downpipe adapter you can have. If it doesn't work you can still get top dollar for the valve used. I seriously doubt you would take it off after running a spool valve. :hihi: Your MPG may vary due to the precups I have just giving me weird results.

So I am switching to synthetic for sure and maybe even going to try AMSOIL next... :eek:
Click to expand...

Did you have a problem cooking the oil? What happend? I may just have to try the BD valve.
 
JayTheCPA said:
Looks like we might have slightly different thoughts in mind.

Am not thinking about heating the air while the engine is running, am thinking about using the heater element that the new Cummings use *in place of* glow plugs. So, overall thought is to install the the heater grid in a secondary intake port for use during the start cycle and (maybe) remove the GP's completely (or leave them in for after-glow or back-up in case the heater element fails).
Click to expand...

OH OK. Seems like my adaptor would work, but you'd need a flap door or some kind of valve to stop boosted air escaping through the heater.
 
Black smoke is inefficient. I have often thought of how to reduce the diesel puff with more air right off idle. If you free up compressor wheel wouldn't turbine wheel spin more freely on initial ramp up to spool up? I have wondered about a solenoid driven "blow off" valve at idle would help and be signaled to close with RPM and or throttle? This would just allow the turbine wheel to accelerate a bit then hopefully build boost quicker???? I think most is in how you roll into the throttle and put on the load and very little gain overall but neat to think about.

Always wondered why they don't have multi fuel busses that could start rolling on LP then switch over to diesel to all but eliminate the diesel puff.
 
I have a LPG system that if I get some time I'd like to install on the Suburban. LPG as far as I know can only supplement diesel not replace it??
LPG is a good power adder to a diesel also.
Speaking of LPG, I noticed yesterday that my exhaust tips (inside) are perfectly clean. Like new, no soot. The engine oil is still very much honey color after 6000 miles!

WW thanks for the link. I'll look at it next.
 
Sorry no links for the old engine, just years ago i worked on them- back when two stroke diesels were not unusual.

About the cummins heater through a separate intake, it will work, I did it on a perkins 4 cylinder project and Leroys spacer would be perfect for that. It was done so that i could do direct injection of lpg into the cylinder through the glowplug hole. Something to seriously consider for idi fuel supply on unbalanced feed (worn cylinders need less fo higher mileage engines).

If you wanted to use single point injection for lpg into the Leroy spacer would be good for that and you haven't drilled a factory part incase you change it out later and want to go back to stock.
 
The bypass valve on the roots blower for the 92 series was at the end of the blower in the end casing and opened and a specific pressure as the turbo started supplying. This valve in effect when open created a passage between the intake and output of the blower lobes so therefore causing a reduction in the pressure created by the blower. Thus reducing the power requirement of the blower and improving mpg's.

I can scan and post the pages from my 92 series manual if I can find it if you like.

Cheers
Nobby
 
schiker said:
Black smoke is inefficient. I have often thought of how to reduce the diesel puff with more air right off idle. If you free up compressor wheel wouldn't turbine wheel spin more freely on initial ramp up to spool up? I have wondered about a solenoid driven "blow off" valve at idle would help and be signaled to close with RPM and or throttle? This would just allow the turbine wheel to accelerate a bit then hopefully build boost quicker???? I think most is in how you roll into the throttle and put on the load and very little gain overall but neat to think about.

Always wondered why they don't have multi fuel busses that could start rolling on LP then switch over to diesel to all but eliminate the diesel puff.
Click to expand...

Local busses are cng. They are quieter and definitely don't smoke as much. They are still diesel engines and can switch back.

Our 2013 6.0l on LPG has a little soot on the tail pipe but not bad at 40k. The wifes truck shows over 70% on display at about 3k miles (2500 since we bought it from Leroy) and it's oil still looks pretty good. I will still change the oil around 5k with synthetic mobile 1 and try to get a fumoto valve so I can take samples.

Source Unknown
 
nobby said:
The bypass valve on the roots blower for the 92 series was at the end of the blower in the end casing and opened and a specific pressure as the turbo started supplying. This valve in effect when open created a passage between the intake and output of the blower lobes so therefore causing a reduction in the pressure created by the blower. Thus reducing the power requirement of the blower and improving mpg's.

I can scan and post the pages from my 92 series manual if I can find it if you like.

Cheers
Nobby
Click to expand...

That'ed be great. I googled but in my short time searching only found a very pad pic of a blower that they said has a bypass valve. From the pic it looked like a waste gate.
 
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