Biodiesel and my 98 6.5

[curt]

Have a slight hmmm going on with my 6.5, it rattles harder on Bio, have been making my own for over two years now and running in several different rigs, this is the third of my own an am still running in a 90 5.9 Dodge.
I keep my tests to a fine edge I like a good process a good wash and filter twice after wash 20 micron to a 10 micron both fuel filters, and into a fuel tank with a tank filter there it is another 10.
My wash is just 5 percent water wash to make sure to get methanol and any soaps left then a four hour air wash to make sure alcohol is gone.
Like I said have run it in others and did have a Duramax that did well the 5.9 loves it but the 6.5 gets louder on it and quite noticeably,
My Son in Laws 93 runs well on it and also veggie nice and quiet but not so my 98, any ideas? Now to details of my rig

98 K3500
NV4500
1164xxmiles
serviced in the last 1500 miles Engine oil 15w40 Amsoil
Fuel filter at the same time
Filter was a bit sticky from the sub zero weather this winter but not bad some stuff in bottom of canister but no big deal
Did replace an exhaust valve about four thousand miles ago head bolts and throw out bearing at that time also
Do need to replace return lines have a leak on the right side putting off till I do the injectors. Trying to find another set of turbo types so can have them redone and just do a swap.
Still need to get EGT gauge and boost still working on it, lots of projects
so no info on temps there bummer that.

Any ideas? Would trying to feed it more air help? It sounds more quiet with ulsd kind of baffles me my other rigs went the other way on Bio and this one while it gets decent mileage on it, just short of 18 mpg in combination driving (freeway and city) , and runs fine starts well even cold, cycle the glows and light her up, just a couple of times over.
I think I have covered it it seems to run alright just noisy. Maybe worrying about nada.
Thanks Curt

 

[Franko914]

You didn't say if you were running B100 or a blend.

You didn't say if the IP timing was adjusted when it was converted to run on biodiesel.

When cold, do you notice that it runs well, then gets sluggish as it warms up? If so, the IP timing might need to be retarded a wee bit.

When cold, do you notice that it runs sluggishly, then gets better as it warms up? If so, the IP timing might be just about where it should be.

You may want to try adjusting the IP timing just a wee bit advanced -- if it knocks harder, normal it up, then go the other way to retard it.

In general, timing should be set to be a little advanced for biodiesel.

Regards,
Franko

 

[curt]

111

You didn't say if you were running B100 or a blend.
Ah, I did forget that didn't I running a B80 blend right now just in case it gets cold again this blend is made with a soy peanut oil bio and will run down to zero, 3 below however will cause problems will run stationary but on the road at about 40 will start slowing down then will idle but not pull itself, once back up to 20 degrees will fire up and go
You didn't say if the IP timing was adjusted when it was converted to run on biodiesel.
No adjustment on IP is ECM controlled, no conversion needed to run on bio other than timing, maybe, have run and am running tractors, other, 6.5s, although this is the newest one and Dodges on bio and nothing else knocks like this one.

When cold, do you notice that it runs well, then gets sluggish as it warms up? If so, the IP timing might need to be retarded a wee bit.
Cycle glows fire it up, let it settle and go if you want, usually let it warm up 6 to 8 minutes while I take care of critters, then go, no problem smooth through the gears and pulls strong, in fact if in city driving usually use third gear instead of second will pull away and run up to 35mph that way

When cold, do you notice that it runs sluggishly, then gets better as it warms up? If so, the IP timing might be just about where it should be.

You may want to try adjusting the IP timing just a wee bit advanced -- if it knocks harder, normal it up, then go the other way to retard it.
Unlike the older IP's mine has no movement it is locked in position no slots at all just bolts size holes.

In general, timing should be set to be a little advanced for biodiesel.
Have heard this before but this is the first rig to rattle like this even the Duramax was more quite on it, although I had the edge chip on it and it could be made to bog at low end if not careful had to get the boost up then stand on it. Which made think maybe more air
Curt

Regards,
Franko

 

[ak diesel driver]

all 6.5s have adjustable ips

 

[Pruittx2]

my 94 love's it, and is quiter. Hmmm is right,, must be a timing thing.

 

[curt]

http://flashoffroad.com/Diesel/injectionpump/injectionpump.htm

all 6.5s have adjustable ips

Go down to about half way to the "Setting the injection timing", sixth paragraph under second heading.To the TDC OFFSET LEARN
Beginning to think it must be my injectors popping early have been meaning to replace them have nozzles but wanted to get another set of bodies to rebuild.

 

[curt]

Indeed my son in laws 93 has 400k on the clock (not sure how it keeps going) sounds better than this on it and most everything I have run on bio does.
Have about decided it is time to do the injectors instead of waiting, the thing that gets me is , it is more quiet on ulsd just strange. I think if the injectors are popping early fast timing no? but still should do the same on ulsd just a puzzle have to keep track till I get this figured out.
Curt

my 94 love's it, and is quiter. Hmmm is right,, must be a timing thing.

 

[Matt Bachand]

Mine ran smooth as glass on B100 for the short time I ran it on it. I soon filled with diesel bringing to a roughly B20-B30 mixture. It ran really smooth. I phased out the bio experiement coming into winter, but Now I double my SAE30ND additive, to a full quart, per 18 gallons or so.

If I listen with engine running I can hear my IP hum a bit. Hood has to be up, and I have to zero in on it, but can do it easily. Performance down, less power, but smooth.

 

[WarWagon]

When I forced my 2008 to run B99 the knock under load (pulling my 28' up a hill) that sounded like spark knock was louder.

With a hot engine the Duramax timing can be over advanced. This is made worse with Biodiesel.

Biodiesel has a higher cetane rating (47-70) than petroleum diesel (42-44). Higher cetane fuels will have shorter ignition delay periods than lower cetane fuels.

So Biodiesel will advance your timing simply by lighting faster when it is injected. (Reducing ignition delay.) So you need to retard your timing.

Worn injectors popping early can also contribute to this.

I am curious as to how it affects your MPG over #2 ULSD. Bio was 10% less MPG, 8.5MPG Bio vs. 9.5MPG on #2 with my 2008. Due to Menthol in the fuel. (Fuel from local B99 plant here.)

 

[curt]

111

When I forced my 2008 to run B99 the knock under load (pulling my 28' up a hill) that sounded like spark knock was louder.
Your 08 would have the post combustion injection yes? Did you do the work around on that? Not to sure on that engine Thought it was the LM instead of an LB series, Of course I really liked my LB7 and everybody told me it was all prone to injector failure and a no good engine:rolleyes5: oh well different strokes

With a hot engine the Duramax timing can be over advanced. This is made worse with Biodiesel.

Biodiesel has a higher cetane rating (47-70) than petroleum diesel (42-44). Higher cetane fuels will have shorter ignition delay periods than lower cetane fuels.

So Biodiesel will advance your timing simply by lighting faster when it is injected. (Reducing ignition delay.) So you need to retard your timing.

Worn injectors popping early can also contribute to this.
This is something I wondered about my injectors are original and have 116K on them so may be getting a bit long in the tooth

I am curious as to how it affects your MPG over #2 ULSD. Bio was 10% less MPG, 8.5MPG Bio vs. 9.5MPG on #2 with my 2008. Due to Menthol in the fuel. (Fuel from local B99 plant here.)

I drop about the same about a mile per gallon from ulsd to bio but I get about 17.5 so not as great a difference.
Have the old 90 Dodge 5.9 with 300K on it that I use for the grease wagon that gets 21 no matter what just smokes a whole lot less on bio.
See if I can post this today kept logging me in to many times yesterday would not let it post.

 

[Veg_Out]

Mine is quietest on B100.

Loudest on V100 Vegetable.

 

[TurboTahoe]

Both rigs are quietest on B99. Loss of power and MPG, about 10% (MPG is calculated, loss of power is by 'seat of pants' dyno.) I love the way the 6.5 runs on B99. I get mine at a commercial ASTM-certified pump - i.e. no water, no excess glop in it.

-Rob

 

[curt]

Will just post every time I try to quote this thing keeps logging me in and multiple log in's mess up the reply won't let all of it through.
Interesting Veg Out have not run V100 my self but my son in law thought he had to for a while in his 93 and that thing sounded pretty good on veg, it was a home built system and really a warm weather system could run it in cold weather but leaks were a problem, always seemed to have an oil puddle back by the tank, it was an old alum camper water tank, more problems than it was worth.
I think along with maybe long in the tooth injectors I may be part of the problem. Have been adding Power Service to the blend as an anti gel the only thing is ,it is also injector cleaner and cetane booster, if injectors might be popping early then extra cetane may not help.
Tahoe, would put my bio with any of the suppliers, some locally have managed to take out a couple of engines, have run mine and two hay farms swathers and tractors, no filter problems no engines toasted or injectors gone.
I screen and run my oil through a 60 micron Oberg before I two stage process, double wash, only use a 5 to 10 percent water then use air for, four or five hours then let it settle at about 140 degrees f, for 8 hours then it is filtered through 20 micron into a 10 micron fuel filters into a tank with another filter into the vehicle.
Fuel filters last normally do not get plugs or other problems, no water, no junk, no goop, in fact after the settle the 55 gallon wash barrels have about 45 gallons of diesel in them and you can see all the way to the bottom of the barrel and see the cross that airs it.
Oh and another thing mentioned earlier was methanol in the Bio the water wash and the air and settle should remove most of the methanol left from the process, methanol is not something you want left in your Bio.
Am through saying how good my stuff is

Guess I am back to needing to do injectors and back off on power service have backed off on this tank and rattle not quite so bad at idle, so maybe part of it

 

[Veg_Out]

Will just post every time I try to quote this thing keeps logging me in and multiple log in's mess up the reply won't let all of it through.
Interesting Veg Out have not run V100 my self but my son in law thought he had to for a while in his 93 and that thing sounded pretty good on veg, it was a home built system and really a warm weather system could run it in cold weather but leaks were a problem, always seemed to have an oil puddle back by the tank, it was an old alum camper water tank, more problems than it was worth.
I think along with maybe long in the tooth injectors I may be part of the problem. Have been adding Power Service to the blend as an anti gel the only thing is ,it is also injector cleaner and cetane booster, if injectors might be popping early then extra cetane may not help.
Tahoe, would put my bio with any of the suppliers, some locally have managed to take out a couple of engines, have run mine and two hay farms swathers and tractors, no filter problems no engines toasted or injectors gone.
I screen and run my oil through a 60 micron Oberg before I two stage process, double wash, only use a 5 to 10 percent water then use air for, four or five hours then let it settle at about 140 degrees f, for 8 hours then it is filtered through 20 micron into a 10 micron fuel filters into a tank with another filter into the vehicle.
Fuel filters last normally do not get plugs or other problems, no water, no junk, no goop, in fact after the settle the 55 gallon wash barrels have about 45 gallons of diesel in them and you can see all the way to the bottom of the barrel and see the cross that airs it.
Oh and another thing mentioned earlier was methanol in the Bio the water wash and the air and settle should remove most of the methanol left from the process, methanol is not something you want left in your Bio.
Am through saying how good my stuff is

Guess I am back to needing to do injectors and back off on power service have backed off on this tank and rattle not quite so bad at idle, so maybe part of it

You think you got the good stuff? ):h

Oh no, I got the good stuff!