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96 6.5 engine stopped running need help

Dread

New Member
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Location
MD
Problem: Explain your problem in concise language (Cranks but won’t fire anymore). __thanks for looking the truck won't start. 3 days before it stopped. (before i start about 30 days ago i had to replace the fuel pump solenoid) 3 days before the truck died. when i started the truck. first start of the day. ran normal for a minute . stall. restart. service engine light came on. other than that ran fine all day. i felt like the truck was louder. looked at the owners manual and it said emissions. did not even blink an eye all my stuff is gas. thought it was a sensor and i would be fine till i had some extra money and time. _____ service engine light stayed on from that point on. and. started the truck first start of the day. ran normal for a minute stall. restart. run fine.___the third day. started the truck first start of the day. ran normal for a minute. stall. restart. ran fine. second start about 8 hours latter it was less than 50 degrees it was louder than normal. then a two to four second tapping or rapping. ran normal for a minute then stalled. started the truck ran fine for a mile then that tapping came back. i jumped out with a long screw drive and listen on the valve covers. found the loudest noise i could find. it was from what i could tell the metal lines coming over the valve covers both sides. the noise went away within 90 seconds. when i got home put the screwdriver back on the lines and could hear a tapping. _____the day it died. had to take a dump run truck was full. not a heavy load. first start of the day. ran normal for a minute then stalled. started the truck ran fine. went to and from. took about an hour and a half. did not use the truck again that day or the next day. went to bring it to aamco the following day. codes. and it would not start. now i was very worried. did not hear a hum and no fuel to the filter. replaced the inline pump. still did not start. while under key filter pumped fuel. cracked a injector while under key and fuel came out but it was not squiring out. i don't know if i opened it up enough? also replaced the pump relay no such luck._____codes p0251,P0251 Injection Pump Cam System. p0335,P0335 Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Circuit. p0370,P0370 Timing Reference High Resolution. what does this mean? were do i start? if i do need to rebuild the injector pump or turbo were can i get a full rebuild kit to do this? ___thank you____

Demographics: tell us about your truck and your ambient conditions:

- Year: ___1996___
- Truck model and class (ie: c2500) __2500 Cheyenne______
- Automatic or Standard ___auto_______
- Mileage: (indicate miles or km) ___142,000______
- Replaced parts and mods (IP, PMD, chip/PCM, TM, injectors etc) ___stock________
- Model: ‘S’ or ‘F’ engine, NA or Turbo, EGR? ___Turbo___________
- Ambient outside temp: (indicate *C or *F) ____60 f______
- What fuel are you using? (#1 Diesel, #2 Diesel, Bio, VO, WVO, etc) __BP diesel_______
- What fuel additives are you using? ____none_______
- Where are you located? ___maryland__________

General maintenance: inspect and evaluate the condition of each. When were they last changed?
- Air filter __june 2009_______
- Fuel filter ___june 2009______
- CDR Valve? ___never______
- Coolant – last flushed/replaced at _____needs to be done________
- Oil – synthetic/regular, changed at ____synthetic @ 80,000miles_______
- Batteries – state of charge, (matched set) replaced at ______matched, new in 2008_______
- Battery cables and grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened): ___needs to be done______
- Glow Plugs - how many miles on them? __new this last year all of them_______ What type? _____in a box white text inside a red oval ________
- Injectors - last changed at ____unknown___________


History: (Describe how the problem first appeared.)
- What were you doing when it happened? ______started the truck about 1 minute it just stalled. started right back up________
- How was the truck running fine before this problem appeared? ___it sounded louder than normal__________
- Has this problem ever happened before? _________no______________
- Describe any related factors that might be part of the problem. _____i do not know, a month ago the fuel pump relay was changed do to the truck just stalled and would not start. change the relay and it was good to go._________
- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? (Y.N) __yes__ And? __p0251,p0335,p0370______


Diagnostics:

1] Starting:
1a] Does the engine start? ____no_____
1b] Does the engine crank over? ___yes_____
1c] Are your batteries fully charged? ___they were______
1d] Have you removed, cleaned, and tightened all battery connections? ____yes____
1e] Does your Wait to Start light come on for a time? How long? ____30 seconds_____
1f] Does your glow plug light come on? ____no never has_____ For how long? _________
1g] Do you see smoke from the exhaust while cranking? What color? ____very little white____
1h] Does the Service Engine Light Glow during Start/bulb check? ____yes and is on____

2] Fuel Issues (if not running):
2a] Can you hear your lift pump working? ____yes ________
2b] Do you get a steady flow of fuel from the water drain (T-handle) ? ___will have to locate and check______
2c] Loosen the inlet line from the IP – is fuel coming out (Lift Pump on)? ___will have to check________
2d] Loosen an injector line and crank the engine - does fuel come out? ____little bit_____
2e] Do you hear a vacuum (hiss) when you remove the fuel cap? ___will have to check_______

3] PMD / IP Issues
3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) _____intake______
3b] Condition of Extension harness (if used) Vendor or Homemade? ____n/a_____
3c] Condition of grounds / ground wires to IP / PMD. Check Harness. ___will have to check______
3d] PMD Make: ___standyne________
3e] PMD Age: ____unknown_________

4] Stalling Issues
4a] Do you experience stalling only when hot? ____never have________
4b] Does it stall under particular circumstances? (ie hit bump, or on accel) __no____
4c] Does pouring cool water over the IP seem to help with restarting? ____no_____
4d] Is stalling momentary (engine recovers)? ___no______
4e] Does SES light come on when engine hiccups? ___no______
4f] Does cruise control quit working when engine hiccups? ___________
4g] Does re-starting seem to reset engine, restoring cruise and power? ____no_____
4h] Changes to dash lights or instruments during stalling events? ____no_______

5] Running Issues
5a] On cold start, does upper rad hose get hard before engine warms up? ___no____
5b] Any bubbles or oil film in coolant overflow tank? __no_____
5c] Any white slime on oil surfaces (dipstick, CDR, oil Fill cap)? ______no____
5d] Excessive white smoke from exhaust on cold start? __maybe on a real cold morning_______
5e] Excessive black smoke from exhaust under hard acceleration? ____no______

6] Performance Issues
6a] Do you have gauges (boost, EGT) ? ___________
6b] Maximum boost under load? ____________
6c] Have you added a performance PCM (reflash) or Chip? ___no___________
6d] Have you changed exhaust / downpipe / crossover? ______no__________
6e] Wastegate – mechanical or vacuum (OEM)? ______stock________

7] Temperature-related Issues:
7a] Single or dual thermostats? ____________
7b] Have you replaced them lately? Manufacturer of replacements? _________
7c] Have you pulled and cleaned Radiator and coolers lately? ____________
7d] Have you replaced the fan clutch? Manufacturer of replacement? ________
7e] (winter) Have you tested your antifreeze? Good to what temp? __________
7f] (winter) Are you using a winter grille cover? ___________
thanks

List and describe any other factors which are not addressed in this checklist. We can’t see, hear, smell, or touch your truck, so the more descriptive information you can give, the more likely it is that somebody can assist you.

_________________________________
 
sounds like a lift pump thats what was wrong with mine...

and mine did the same thing that urs is doing except the service engine light...
 
Couple things to start (no pun intended) ok maybe it was intended. LOL

Relocate PMD out of engine bay. Recommend Heath

Make sure the ground from the PMD harness is still on the IP and clean. VERY important.

Clean every ground location you can find under hood.

T valve should be located on bracket by thermostat.
 
6.5dragracer replaced the lift pump

Mudbath what do i need to remove to get to the pmd? were can i find a description of the ground locations? T valve. open it under key? how much fuel should come out as much as the top of the filter?

thanks for the input
 
"3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) _____intake______"

From this I took it that it was already relocated to the Intake which is usually worse than on the pump. If it is still on the pump I believe you need an ellen key and a lot of patience to get it off. Removing the upper intake helps although it has been a long time.

If the PMD is fairly old then leave it on the pump (if still there) and buy the complete PMD/relocation kit. If old and relocated to intake I would save as a spare and still buy PMD/relocation kit.

Fuel should flow steady from the hose with no air bubbles, if flowing great there still could be a problem with pressure.

I will see if I can find a good thread for the grounds.

Here what the Doc prescribes... http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?t=14596


And here is the Truck Stop 6.5 bible for some nice light reading

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=218
 
6.5dragracer replaced the lift pump

Mudbath what do i need to remove to get to the pmd? were can i find a description of the ground locations? T valve. open it under key? how much fuel should come out as much as the top of the filter?

thanks for the input

Another thing to look at on the 95 6.5 is in the harness going to the optical sensor there maybe a filter. If there, remove it and plug harness in directly to the optical sensor. It is there as a noise suppressor and really doesn't have to be there. If all is good after it can, but doesn't have to be replaced. Have a look here on the Heath site.

http://www.heathdiesel.com/P/HDP1559/
 
No glow plug light? Sounds like you need to work that angle, fix glow plug system, as well.
 
"1e] Does your Wait to Start light come on for a time? How long? ____30 seconds_____
1f] Does your glow plug light come on? ____no never has_____ "


This kind of confused me. The please wait light is the glow plug light. :confused::confused::confused:
 
Now what, still no start

Thanks for all the help getting me to this point.
I cleaned all the grounds. Most look ok but I cleaned them any way.
I replaced the CPS. Tried to start the truck no start.
I relocated the pmd with a used one new heat sink and harness. Still no start.
Lift pump was also replaced.
The only code I still have is 251.(Injector pump fuel metering control a cam/rotor/injector)
The truck is defiantly getting fuel to the ip.
Is the optical sensor filter at the ip under the intake?
If the ip solenoid is bad would code 251 be readable or is it a different code?
Did I just get a bad used pmd? They said it was tested on a $50,000 bench.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Once again thank you all. The info given to me has been very useful. Two codes down one to go. Thank you!
 
I bought 2 used PMD's that I ran for a couple of weeks to help me confirm my stalling issue was the PMD. I ran each one of the used Stanadyne PMDs for a week, one of them was bad & the place I purchased them from was local, so they exchanged the one bad one with another used one.

After I was convinced my PMD was the issue...I then purchased a new Dtech #9 resister and PMD from Pensacola ebay store, now I have the old used Stanadyne with the resister in it setting in my glove box as a spare.

So yes, you can get a BAD used PMD, no matter how they test them (if they test them), they fail over time from heat, no way to project when that is gonna happen when they are used, especially when you consider that the majority of the used PMDs that are sold come in on the IP pumps when they get rebuilt. All the used PMDs IMO have already been exposed to high heat conditions as they spent there entire time in-service mounted on the IP pump in the engine bay.

Just my experience and that is not much, you have codes being thrown, I had NONE.

HTH'd,
69
 
ak diesel driver
i do not know i will check when some one is here to turn the key for me. I only hear the pump from in the truck.
 
Dread, I just went over your original post. Since you already did the crank sensor for that code, and the grounds, like the other guys said you may have a couple of issues but one I think you have is fuel supply (due to codes 0251 and 0370). I had this issue before. You should get 1 liter/minute out of the t-handle drain with the engine off. If not, you have a rstriction (especially where you have a new lift pump). When mine stalled from fuel starvation it could be a whore to restart. Check the amout out of the t-handle and let us know)Iused a 2 lietr soda bottle to make measuring easy).
 
Did I just get a bad used pmd? They said it was tested on a $50,000 bench.

It's possible. And I've always wanted to say about this $50,000 bench we've all heard about, "Show Me", I'm not buying that one. You can get a brand new Dipaco PMD for under $200.
 
guybb3
Thanks for the info. I will let you know how much fuel is pumped out of the t handle.
 
guybb3
1 liter/minute out of the t-handle drain with the engine off. no problem if anything the fuel came out faster than that.
 
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