'95 'burb' w/glow & start problems

[donco]

Many thanks to you folks for the excellent information. I've only read a few threads (like the manual glow mod), and read the entire thread here:

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/sh...6.5-turbo-won-t-start/page11&highlight=manual

Unfortunately I bought a non-runner that "only needs a new IP", and have been having problems ever since. Mostly electrical (though, got all new bearings on the bottom end, new heads, and rebuilt filter housing in addition to brand new IP w/grey PMD).

The latest issues are:

1) the ENG-I fused circuit is grounded out -- fuse pops immediately when in on position (I think? maybe start position).

2) glow no longer works at all

3) start refuses to start ~20-30% of the time


I have been able to ignore the fuse for now. I believe it's related to the fuel filter housing heater element based on research here and diesel place. In any case, the truck appears to start and run reasonably well without it.

The glow I've worked around by: simply not turning off the rig any more than necessary; when turning off, doing so for only short amounts of time; manually shorting across the terminals on the GP relay. Unfortunately, I think my GPs are shot now, as I now get no load while the GP indicator still lights up when I short the terminals. Have verified "no load" by: no sparks when shorting the terminals, no under-hood light dimming, and no voltage drop using a digital fluke tester.

*** QUESTIONs: Was this patently stupid, could I have blasted all my GPs all at once by doing this? If so does this mean I have a low volt GP system I've heard is on some of these trucks?

I already got the moment switch and the starter solenoid to setup the manual glow until I can get this fixed, but seems more pressing to get the GPs swapped out with 60G's (those are the self regulating, right?).


As if the GP relay wasn't dumb enough, the starter takes it up a notch, as to handle the frequent non-start, I crawl under the rig and manually jump the primary batt terminal to the solenoid lead. You haven't lived until you've had a motor cranking inches above your head with the occasional rain of sparks -- a little off, and you get to try your hand at some impromptu arc-welding.


Just doin' the best with what I've got. I've managed to go 1.5 weeks this way on the GP, about half a week on the starter, and was hoping to get another 2 or so, but no such luck. Lots of money on the 1st, plenty of over time available, but I need to get to work to get at it.


Any pointers are appreciated. I'm checking voltage and ohms at a sampling of GPs now. I expect they'll read close to open.


Regards,
-Don

 

[donco]

I'm checking voltage and ohms at a sampling of GPs now. I expect they'll read close to open.

13v at the leads when I jump the GP relay (batt charger on it), and complete wide open when checking resistence at the GPs. Tested 1st & 2nd cylinder on driver's side. Didn't see much point in going further.

So, after replacing all the GPs, how do I avoid blowing them up again? Or will sticking with the 60G model handle that?

I'll also price out and check availability of the Bosch brand (Bosch Duraterms part # 80034, but will confirm suitability for application prior to purchase). I've read somewhere the differences, but I need to look it up again.

Truthfully, it really comes down to which ones I can get tomorrow.


Regards,
-Don

 

[Crankme69]

The very first thing I would suggest is unplugging the Fuel Heater element in the filter housing, then replace the fuse, see what ya get with yr new GP's. Very same issue here on both my 1995's with the FM heater blowing that fuse.

If we talking about the same fuse & I think we are based on the info in yr post, it also kills power to yr vacuum boost solenoid, so you don't have that working either...

Also fill out yr signature so we can be sure of your yr & model...

 

[ak diesel driver]

60gs or duraterms (both self regulating) are the plugs preferred. and manually activating them shouldn't burn them out that quickly. Also might want to check for pinched wired between the block/bellhousing

 

[donco]

Well, I've completed the manual glow, seems to work. Replaced all but 1.5 glow plugs -- I have replaced #4, but can't reach the terminal to plut it back in, and #6 seems to require that I take the exhaust downpipe off the turbo to reach the same point as #4 (replaced, but not plugged in).

I'm sure there's a trick to it, but I'll be derned if I can fligure it.

The starter is a bust. I think it must be the solenoid itself. I had discovered that by shorting the solinoid terminal with the main battery terminal, I could kick the starter into running. I figured it was electrical, and ran a new cable (basically an override, like the manual glow) -- I need a working truck to get groceries for the family and commute to work and so tracing wires would have to wait. Alas the override doesn't work. It uses the same input current as the manual glow solinoid (which is working fine), and it did kick the starter briefly during final testing (which suggests that I wired it correctly). However mere seconds later when I tried to start it for real, no go.

My guess is that the starter solinoid is shot, and sometimes won't kick unless it's hit over the head with a massive jolt. The wire I ran simply won't dump enough juice. Or thus is my guess. I'll need an assistant to be able to read voltage at the starter solenoid terminal while the key is in the start position, and with the manual start button.

For easy reference, I used the following for the various electrical runs:

*) 8 guage, 2ft ea (4ft total), for the glow cross links
*) 10 guage, ~5ft, for the common power to manual-glow and manual-start
*) 10 guage, ~9ft, from common power to manual-start
*) 16 guage, ~6ft, from common power to manual-glow solinoid

Common power is fused @ 30amp using aux power B (I think? maybe A; whichever one was completely unused).

Speaking of which, before I give up, I need to get a nut for the B power post. It was completely unutilized and I guess didn't come with a nut -- looks to be fine threaded, and I simply don't have one. I've just got the ring set on the post and taped down for testing.

Perhaps I'm not getting sufficient conduction for the starter solinoid, but enough for the manual glow solinoid?


Any way to test the solinoid without pulling the starter?


The saga, no doubt, shall continue...


Regards,
-Don


P.S.: I tried updating my profile with my vehicles, but I think my browser (at home) is too old. I'll try again at the office.

 

[jrsavoie]

Did you do a load tes on the batteries? It's one of thge places I always start.

Do to the fact that I almost changed a starter once, when a friend demanded I do a load test first or he wouldn't drink beere while I changed the starter.

The Load test proved the batteries bad. Even though the batteries were fairly new and held voltage. Also if you have dual posts, Test both sets of posts. It seems I have had more than my share of batteries that seemed good except the posts. Sometimes you can have a good top post and a bad side post.

The only way I know of to test the starter is to pull it.

 

[donco]

I know the batts are good, though you were on the right track.

The retaining nut for the primary batt terminal to the starter was loose. When I went to remove it to have the autoparts store test it, I couldn't get reverse torque on my socket to click the advance. Pulled the wrench, and sure enough, it wasn't even finger tight. The extreme temps, perhaps vibration as well, must have worked it loose.

Or the previous fellow wrenching on it couldn't get a good handle on it to torque it down tight.

Never did get it tested (though did apply jumpers to the solenoid lead to check the solenoid action).

Thanks for the assistance in tracking that down!

Regards,
-Don