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4L80E Harsh shifting from 1st to 2nd

dbrannon79

I'm getting there!
Messages
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Location
Seguin, TX
I need some input on where to start. on my 93 truck the trans has been shifting hard from 1st to 2nd after it's warmed up. when cold it shifts fine.

a little back story: This truck had it's trans rebuilt back in 2018 by the PO, at the time I purchased it, the trans only had about 2k miles on it since it's rebuild. During this process for reasons unknown the factory TCM was disconnected and a EZ-TCI controller was installed. from what I recall, the PO had told me that the trans was replaced and pieced together using parts from the old trans and this apparently was the reason for the aftermarket TCM. I have put about 2500 miles or so on it since I bought it.

The things I can physically see that were done (thinking a newer year trans was used) is the shift shaft was swapped so the factory linkage would connect to the old style column shifter. The connector was upgraded to the new style as the factory harness is a bolt on type.

I have read where @THEFERMANATOR has posted the differences many times and learned about the PCS (pressure control solenoid) are different from the 93 and the newer ones as well as the valve bodies with the TCC PWM solenoid cleaning cycle on the older ones. Here is a snip of one or his posts telling the differences..

1728067583531.png

Honestly I have no idea what the internals are, if they are of a newer trans or the older style trans, nor do I know if any upgrades were done in the process. I did verify this trans does have the tone wheel installed for the older style and it does send signal for both speed sensors, (the TCU is using the rear output sensor)

other than the hard shift from 1st to 2nd, all gears feel strong, no slippage, and the TCC lockup is much stronger than my 95 (feeling when it engages)

it's just the odd hard shift only when warm. the speed and RPM is normal when shifting too. I have the EZ-TCI set to shift as light as it will let me set it at and the low speed first shift is set to 10mph (as low as it will go). accelerating normally (not slow) it will shift at about 15ish mph and if I accelerate faster it will shift a little later and even harder from 1st to 2nd. all other gears shift smooth comparing to how my 95 shifts.

One thing that I also wondered is if the trans was filled with dex IV instead of Dex III. wondering if there is a oil viscosity difference when warm since when cold, shifting is fine.

I have already reached out to EZ-TCI asking for some data or charts to tell me what the controller commands for things like line pressure and shifting events so if I need to connect a pressure gauge and verify the trans is responding to what the TCU is commanding. There is no way to connect and see live data like line pressure on the TCU that I'm aware of. The handheld display will only show things like speed sensor, temp, and TPS data in live mode.

I figured I would reach out to your guys here for help before I drop the pan wasting what looks like clean bright red fluid and replace it with fresh dex III. I also bought a bottle of "Craigslist trans clutch rebuild" Lucas trans stop leak since it is supposed to thicken up the fluid and help with harsh shifting, but I have not poured it in yet.

Any help or advice would be appreciated. I think @Will said Humvee guys are running the EZ-TCI controllers on their hummers, maybe they have some insite on how their shifts with this controller or what the optimal setting would be for an everyday driver.

Diagnosing this I need to find out if it's something in the trans causing this or if it's the controller and this is how it will be. during this I would also like to see if the factory TCM can be connected back up since it's still in the truck with all the wiring intact.
 
I'm wondering if the computer is programmed to lock up in first and second and it's not unlocking during that shift
From what I can tell (feeling shifts) and using my foot on the brake, the TCC only locks up in 4th at about 50 MPH. this is progammable in the TCU for different speeds and for lockup/unlock at TPS % values. right now when cruising on the freeway, accelerating slightly will also unlock the TCC as well as letting off the pedal it will unlock. it's wiring is also connected to the brake light switch forcing it to unlock when the brake is pressed.

otherwise I've always heard that this is a basic limp mode. going full line pressure
This thought has occurred to me as well, thinking that ether the TCM is not able to control the line pressure (inop or incompatible PCS) and it's defaulted to full pressure all the time. the only way I would be able to tell is by connecting a gauge. I will need to learn what to look for on the gauge for pressures to determine this.

It would also be nice to see if possible weather I can tap into the harness and read the voltage signals going to the PCS for the trans seeing what the TCM is sending or being able to read digitally what the line pressure commands the TCM is sending.
 
Well I received a response from EZ-TCI on asking for some technical data for the controller....

1728434845591.png

This doesn't help much given the fact only one gear change is effected. you can't hardly feel shifting from 2nd to 3rd and going into 4th is not felt at all!

I guess I need to research part numbers for the PCS solenoids from a 93 and one from a newer trans, then drop the pan, inspect and go from there. might even try replacing the 1-2 shift solenoid too.
 
Found a little info on the EPC or pressure control solenoids. 93 used a bosch solenoid which had a screen opening on the end, 94+ used a Holley solenoid which does not have the screen opening on the end. armed with the physical differences now, I need to figure out if the newer style can be used in the older valve body. I also found out how to test all the solenoids for resistance without needing to drop the pan. this my reveal things too.

again I am in the dark here as to what parts were swapped during the rebuild, if the old valve body was used or it has all newer internals. I would assume it's all of the newer updated internals.

more research is needed before I do anything other than maybe take a resistance reading.

Here is a link to a TSB I found.

 
Well, I just got around to doing an ohm test on the solenoids via the trans connector. Here are the results and some extra info.

Solenoid A = 22.6 ohm
Solenoid B = 22.1 ohm
TCC PWM = 11.6 ohm
PCS / EPC = 5.3 ohm

the only reading I found to be slightly out of spec is the PCS. holding the meter probes on it longer it did start at about 6ohms and slowly go down to 4.8ohms in testing it several times. I am curious if the resistance goes higher as the trans warms up taking it fully out of range causing the hard shift from 1st to 2nd.

This is the info I found online for what they should read...

1728840680924.png

And the connector diagram from the ATSC book...

1728840753764.png
 
While I was under there I did attempt to identify the age of the trans, if it's of the 93 era or newer. There is no sticker on the top and the cooler lines are both together up towards the front of the trans indicating it's an older style case. there are adapters on the trans for the cooler lines that look to go from 1/4" to 5/16" but those might just be npt to flare fittings. I think the newer cases used 3/8" and had to be adapted down for use in older applications. someone correct me if I am wrong here.

all in all it looks like I will be dropping the pan and replacing the PCS solenoid. I did find out in reading the ATSC manual that the newer PCS can be used but some changes to the valve body need to be done. this is something I am not comfortable with attempting to check on my own. I guess it will all come down to what style solenoid I find in the trans as to what goes back in.

Here is another snip from the ATSC manual on the PCS solenoid and the changes in the valve body.

1728842031150.png
1728842059002.png
1728842082345.png
1728842104763.png
1728842131242.png
 
Well after all the work that went into fitting a factory TPS on the truck and seeing that it reaches 5v before a full sweep of the throttle at WOT I have found out the trans is shifting harder than before I started. before I drop the pan and attack the PCS I need to go back to the drawing board on this TPS. need to find something that doesn't reach 5v until the throttle is at WOT and will rest at about 0.5v at idle.

yesterday I did check the cable operated TPS with my meter and it does work at full sweep but the cable only has about 2 inches of travel where I need more to allow the IP to do a full sweep. That or a shorter arm on the throttle shaft. I pulled the box apart on it and see that I could change the spring so it doesn't add to the pedal return resistance. If I can come up with a shorter arm for the shaft I can make it work.

Once I figure this out and resolve TPS issues, then I can dive into the trans.
 
Oops! I had typed out my last post yesterday afternoon and forgot to hit to post button LOL Owell.

I drove the truck to work today and noticed right away even when the truck hadn't had a chance to warm up it was shifting hard in all gears. this is with the GM tps which maxes voltage out before reaching WOT.

this evening after work I pulled the truck in the back and started fiddling with the cable operated TPS that I had just removed.

pulled it apart looking at the spring and travel arrangement on the cable. Then decided to see If I can possibly figure out a way to mount it and get a full sweep without it maxing out before WOT. I measured the cable travel from fully relaxed (idle) to fully extended (WOT) and got 1-5/8" of travel on the cable.

Since I had already used my multi-meter to see it's voltage from no pull on the cable to fully extended and verified it hits 5v when the cable is fully out. I re-attached the clip on the stud where a kick down cable would normally go, then played with various angles on the cable mount holding it and moving the throttle shaft on the IP.

Ya know when you figured out you have failed at something but then succeeded at another! Well I ended up fishing the cable up under the intake from the back side and then connecting it same as a kick down cable would connect to the IP. secured the cable on one of the intake runners with a couple of plastic zip ties and made some fine adjustments sliding the cable back n fourth on the zip ties. I now finally think I have it adjusted so that it's just hitting 5v when the IP is at WOT. when I release the throttle the cable is very slightly loose. moving the throttle maybe a 1/16" to 1/8", it's not much and the cable begins to move as does the TPS voltage begins to increase. I don't thing I can get it any closer than that!

took it out for a test drive just before dark and it still shifts harsh from 1st to 2nd but the rest of the gears are back to normal. I ordered a trans TV cable bracket from the jungle site thinking I might be able to use one of the bolt holes on the block where a center mount turbo goes and attach the cable correctly.

Now I can move on to getting a pressure gauge to see line pressures on the trans and then determine if I need to replace the PCS or just do a fluid change making sure it's got Dex-tron 3 and not Dex 6.
 
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