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'01 Express 3500 No Start Issues

C

cmaster

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Canada
Problem: Explain your problem in concise language (ie: Cranks but won’t fire). __Cranks but won't fire!!!!!__________________________

Demographics: tell us about your truck and your ambient conditions:

- Year: _2001_____
- Truck model and class (ie: c2500) _Express 3500________
- Automatic or Standard ____Auto______
- Mileage: (indicate miles or km) ___112000km______
- Replaced parts and mods (IP, PMD, chip/PCM, TM, injectors etc) Replaced fuel pump and glow plug controller___________
- Model: ‘S’ or ‘F’ engine, NA or Turbo, EGR? _Turbo_____________
- Ambient outside temp: (indicate *C or *F) _In garage 15 C_________
- What fuel are you using? (#1 Diesel, #2 Diesel, Bio, VO, WVO, etc) __Petro Canada Diesel_______
- What fuel additives are you using? _None__________
- Where are you located? __Ontario Canada___________

General maintenance: inspect and evaluate the condition of each. When were they last changed?
- Air filter _K&N cleaned 3 months ago________
- Fuel filter __Not changed yet_______
- CDR Valve? _Not sure________
- Coolant – last flushed/replaced at __6 months ago___________
- Oil – synthetic/regular, changed at __synthetic 2 months ago_________
- Batteries – state of charge, (matched set) replaced at _Full charge____________
- Battery cables and grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened): ___Yes___________
- Glow Plugs - how many miles on them? _112000 km________ What type? ___oem__________
- Injectors - last changed at __never_____________


History: (Describe how the problem first appeared.)
- What were you doing when it happened? __city driving engine stalled____________
- How was the truck running fine before this problem appeared? __yes___________
- Has this problem ever happened before? __no_____________________
- Describe any related factors that might be part of the problem. ______________
- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? (Y.N) _yes___ And? __0380 and 0236-----changed the fuel pump first, then the glow plug relay______


Diagnostics:

1] Starting:
1a] Does the engine start? _no________
1b] Does the engine crank over? _yes_______
1c] Are your batteries fully charged? ___yes______
1d] Have you removed, cleaned, and tightened all battery connections? __yes______
1e] Does your Wait to Start light come on for a time? How long? _yes approx 6 seconds at first, then intermittent til fuel pump stops________
1f] Does your glow plug light come on? _________ For how long? _________
1g] Do you see smoke from the exhaust while cranking? What color? __no smoke______
1h] Does the Service Engine Light Glow during Start/bulb check? __yes______

2] Fuel Issues (if not running):
2a] Can you hear your lift pump working? _yes___________
2b] Do you get a steady flow of fuel from the water drain (T-handle) ? _not sure________
2c] Loosen the inlet line from the IP – is fuel coming out (Lift Pump on)? __not tried_________
2d] Loosen an injector line and crank the engine - does fuel come out? _not tried________
2e] Do you hear a vacuum (hiss) when you remove the fuel cap? _not tried__________

3] PMD / IP Issues
3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) ___________
3b] Condition of Extension harness (if used) Vendor or Homemade? _________
3c] Condition of grounds / ground wires to IP / PMD. Check Harness. _________
3d] PMD Make: ___________
3e] PMD Age: _____________

4] Stalling Issues
4a] Do you experience stalling only when hot? ____________
4b] Does it stall under particular circumstances? (ie hit bump, or on accel) ______
4c] Does pouring cool water over the IP seem to help with restarting? _________
4d] Is stalling momentary (engine recovers)? _________
4e] Does SES light come on when engine hiccups? _________
4f] Does cruise control quit working when engine hiccups? ___________
4g] Does re-starting seem to reset engine, restoring cruise and power? _________
4h] Changes to dash lights or instruments during stalling events? ___________

5] Running Issues
5a] On cold start, does upper rad hose get hard before engine warms up? _______
5b] Any bubbles or oil film in coolant overflow tank? _______
5c] Any white slime on oil surfaces (dipstick, CDR, oil Fill cap)? __________
5d] Excessive white smoke from exhaust on cold start? _________
5e] Excessive black smoke from exhaust under hard acceleration? __________

6] Performance Issues
6a] Do you have gauges (boost, EGT) ? ___________
6b] Maximum boost under load? ____________
6c] Have you added a performance PCM (reflash) or Chip? ______________
6d] Have you changed exhaust / downpipe / crossover? ________________
6e] Wastegate – mechanical or vacuum (OEM)? ______________

7] Temperature-related Issues:
7a] Single or dual thermostats? ____________
7b] Have you replaced them lately? Manufacturer of replacements? _________
7c] Have you pulled and cleaned Radiator and coolers lately? ____________
7d] Have you replaced the fan clutch? Manufacturer of replacement? ________
7e] (winter) Have you tested your antifreeze? Good to what temp? __________
7f] (winter) Are you using a winter grille cover? ___________

List and describe any other factors which are not addressed in this checklist. We can’t see, hear, smell, or touch your truck, so the more descriptive information you can give, the more likely it is that somebody can assist you.

After the lift pump was changed engine started and ran perfectly for 10 min. After shutting off and trying to restart....no start. Next morning engine started and ran perfectly again...same problem after shut off. Changed the glow plug relay....hasn't started since. There is power going to the glow plugs. The wait to start light goes off and on when the key is in the on position and the gp relay clicks in sync with the light.

Any help is appreciated. I have an auto (not diesel) mechanic working on this with me.
 
2b are easy to do? This is intended to check if Lift Pump is pumping not just purring.
2e is to eliminate the possibility that the fuel cap is defective. It needs some pressure but not vacuum. It is also easy to do????

Need to do those? the cheap stuff first. Unless you are set in putting $$$ to it.
 
Is the truck sitting outside? I'm assuming it's -15C. If you disconnected the batteries to change the glow control, the WTS won't function properly until a start cycle is completed.

Fuel delivery needs to be verified.

It does however sound like a PMD. Check for fuel first.
 
The pmd is the next thing I would change then. If it wasn't the problem a good spare should be on hand anyway.

A known good pmd is the only way to check pmd problems.
 
One other thought, is the fuel shut off sol (fsos) opening? It's the thing on the front top of the IP shaped like a roll of coins with 2 wires on it. You should hear it click when the key is turned on.

Also pull the ecm and fsos fuses out of the engine bay fuse block (may differ on vans) shine the fuse spades up with emory cloth or fine sand paper. A bad fuse connection will cause a no start.
 
It's the same as SS diesel heat sinks. It's no good on the intake, some have luck there but myself and others get a few months or less life in that location. The front bumper or in front of the Rad are the best locations.

www.pmdcable.com is a site vendor that is as good or better price if IIRC. Or there is Heath Diesel.
 
Inside the bumper between the nostrils is where I have mine, others have it mounted to the back bottom edge of the bumper.

I just looked at pmdcables site and his price is better than the one you posted and comes with an extension.


BTW, Welcome to TTS!
 
I'll let the mechanic decide where he wants to mount it. Thanks for your help and the welcome!!!
I'll let you know if it works once we get it installed.
 
NVW said:
The pmd is the next thing I would change then. If it wasn't the problem a good spare should be on hand anyway.

A known good pmd is the only way to check pmd problems.
Click to expand...

A known good PMD is easiest way to check if PMD is the issue, but even if he followed the advice on Accurate he would have come to this check, and it works, Ive done it a couple times. Its even in the technical library, GM troubleshooting procedures. This will tell you whether or not there is something wrong in the electronics before the IP. Previous steps in Accurates no-start list try to narrow it down to just the PMD or something earlier, like PCM not sending the signal. This is a lot like things I have written in the past on multiple forums.

The voltage observed should be greater than 1.0VAC.

This check wrongly lists previous steps 14 and 15 when it means 15 and 16 of their list. Where you check PCM outputs and power and grounds

AccurateDiesel said:
Those wishing to see if the PMD is outputting control signals to the injection pump, perform the following:
You will need to access the red wire in position "B" as well as the black wire in position "F" of the PMD connector with the PMD plugged back in. This can be challenging with the intake manifold installed. If the intake manifold is off, you can access the same wires much easier at the back of the injection pump by pulling off the large rubber boot at the very rear of the injection pump. If the intake is still installed, read carefully to understand how to connect to the wire with the PMD plugged in. (This is also a good time to note that an alternative to this test method is to substitute a known good PMD. If you have the means, consider buying one if you plan on owning the truck for many years - especially if you travel with it. Every 6.5L owner should have a spare PMD - it is not a matter of IF the original PMD will fail, it is a matter of when, and you will thank yourself a million times when the extra PMD keeps you from being stranded on a dark, cold, and rainy night.) Back to connecting to the wires. Straighten out a small paper clip and cut it in half. Push one of the pieces of paper clip into the BACK of the PMD connector right alongside each wire (Postions B and F). Push the piece of paper clip gently between the rubber seal and the wire. Wiggle the paper clip and push gently until about an inch of the paper clip is no longer visible. The paper clip is now touching the back of the bare metal terminal connected to the wire. Do this for both wires.Use your ohmmeter on the continuity test setting to ensure that each paper clip is indeed making contact with the respective wire. If you have wire piercing probes they can also be used for a more reliable connection (be sure to repair the wires later). You can also strip sections of the wire and attach short sections of wire as "test leads."
Now, plug the PMD connection back in. (Yes, it is challenging, but be patient and keep it square and you will get it.) Connect your volt meter to the two wires and set the meter to measure AC volts. Be sure not to let the paper clips short against engine ground or the PMD will be destroyed!
Crank the engine and observe the voltage. You should observe around 0.8 to 1.0 AC volts - this will vary slightly with cranking speed. If this test fails, but steps 14 and 15 passed, you most likely have a bad PMD. If this test passes, and you have followed this procedure from the beginning, then you most likely need an injection pump.
For those who came here to test a PMD only: If you have the input signals to the PMD described in steps 14 and 15, and the PMD outputs correctly in step 18, then the PMD is at least capable of starting the truck. This does NOT mean it may not later cause stalling or other issues, but it should bring the engine to life.
Click to expand...
 
Also something to check is the continuity through the IP's Fuel Solenoid. testing resistance across the PMD connector sockets B and F, you should have about 0.4 ohms. otherwise the wires may have come loose on the fuel solenoid
 

Attachments

  • PCM-FSD-IP signals.pdf
    479.8 KB · Views: 9
buddy said:
A known good PMD is easiest way to check if PMD is the issue, but even if he followed the advice on Accurate he would have come to this check, and it works, Ive done it a couple times. Its even in the technical library, GM troubleshooting procedures. This will tell you whether or not there is something wrong in the electronics before the IP. Previous steps in Accurates no-start list try to narrow it down to just the PMD or something earlier, like PCM not sending the signal. This is a lot like things I have written in the past on multiple forums.

The voltage observed should be greater than 1.0VAC.

This check wrongly lists previous steps 14 and 15 when it means 15 and 16 of their list. Where you check PCM outputs and power and grounds
Click to expand...

Unfortunately we couldn't do the test. Working on a van is a PITA at the best of times, and with the manifold on, the test is pretty much impossible. We'll try the FSD first, then the pump.
 
buddy said:
Also something to check is the continuity through the IP's Fuel Solenoid. testing resistance across the PMD connector sockets B and F, you should have about 0.4 ohms. otherwise the wires may have come loose on the fuel solenoid
Click to expand...

I will get him to check that when we are going to change the FSD. Thanks.
 
cmaster said:
Unfortunately we couldn't do the test. Working on a van is a PITA at the best of times, and with the manifold on, the test is pretty much impossible. We'll try the FSD first, then the pump.
Click to expand...

Are you getting a remote mount? Even if not you can try to fire it up while its hanging in the air on the connection. And perform that voltage check while cranking. Would be good before replacing an IP.
 
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