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Injector nozzles

You need to clarify “better”.
More volume at same pressure (generated by pump) will not mist as well.

What injection pump are you running and how it’s set up,
What compression and turbo are you running and what boost.

Then most importantly how are you using rig and what exactly are you trying to achieve.
 
Every IDI nozzle has the same size hole. I've measured the GM, VW and Mercedes nozzles and they are identical.

The difference comes down to the pintle design, and the amount of needle lift. As the needle lifts off the seat the design of the pintle and how far it lifts up determines the flow rate curve. The injection pump determines the volume.

Honestly I think marine injectors are a complete waste of time and money. Until I see real world test results (hp, mpg ect) I doubt they truly do anything. I believe the results people feel are just from the added pop pressure. Which is a whole different discussion.
 
Will L. said:
You need to clarify “better”.
More volume at same pressure (generated by pump) will not mist as well.

What injection pump are you running and how it’s set up,
What compression and turbo are you running and what boost.

Then most importantly how are you using rig and what exactly are you trying to achieve.
Click to expand...
I have a Penta marine engine, Tamd40, with nozzle DNOSD 193 and boostpressure 1.2 bar with Holset H1C turbo unit. . Ca 200 PS.
I don't need more power but enhanced torque.
Could DNOSD 314 or 315 be a better solution
 
Rockabillyrat said:
Every IDI nozzle has the same size hole. I've measured the GM, VW and Mercedes nozzles and they are identical.

The difference comes down to the pintle design, and the amount of needle lift. As the needle lifts off the seat the design of the pintle and how far it lifts up determines the flow rate curve. The injection pump determines the volume.

Honestly I think marine injectors are a complete waste of time and money. Until I see real world test results (hp, mpg ect) I doubt they truly do anything. I believe the results people feel are just from the added pop pressure. Which is a whole different discussion.
Click to expand...
Will the VW or Mercedes nozzles fit the 6.2/6.5 injectors ?
Those are still available, made in Germany.
Thinking those nozzles and use the pintle from the old 6.2/6.5 injectors, check spray and then have a source for proper and premium nozzles.
Or if the pintles for the German injectors would work with the 6.2/6.5 injectors. 🤷‍♂️
 
MrMarty51 said:
Will the VW or Mercedes nozzles fit the 6.2/6.5 injectors ?
Those are still available, made in Germany.
Thinking those nozzles and use the pintle from the old 6.2/6.5 injectors, check spray and then have a source for proper and premium nozzles.
Or if the pintles for the German injectors would work with the 6.2/6.5 injectors. 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
They are all interchangeable. There are long and short style VW/Mercedes nozzles just like the 6.2/6.5. Out of all the nozzles I measured, the long body 6.2s are my choice for my build. Most amount of lift, the needle is larger, and with some modifications to the pintle I believe the flow rate curve can be dialed in for a more performance application.
 
Ok- based on your lack of mention a highly built ip, associated tune for it if it has an electronic pump:

I would not expect to see much improvement in torque from switching those nozzles by themselves.
The amount of added fuel you get would result in the effect as opening thr throttle slightly more. If you are going from idle to 100% throttle up to a high speed then once at speed backing off the throttle… and have been operating it that way a long time - then you MIGHT notice a difference. You would have to be so intune that you notice the loss of performance when you add say 700 lbs weight to the vehicle.

So would it factually increase torque- yes. For practical use if you are not constantly maxing out what you already have- no.


Understand anything you do that adds more fuel will increase torque & hp at same time unless you do it in a manner that only increases it at specific point of the rpm band.
Larger injectors add more fuel volume all the time. And if you are not doing any pop pressure adjustments correlating with the volume change, it will add that volume exactly at the curve of the pump.

Now, if you have 125,000 miles on the current injectors and were to put in those new ones that are larger- you will notice a bigger impact. But know that a lot of the change is from old worn vs new. How well that injection gets atomized is a huge difference- imo it is as big a difference as the volume change until you are making a major jump in power.
This is why so many people spend time playing with pop pressure.
But ultimately the injection pump is the biggest factor.

All that said - application is a major contributor. Is this in a boat that needs to get up to plane quicker? A pickup that is too slow only when towing a heavy trailer but ok empty or are you like I was and just got tires of being left in the dust of a prius from stoplight?

Based on options you added- pretty sure this isn’t a generator bogging under load.
 
Rockabillyrat said:
They are all interchangeable. There are long and short style VW/Mercedes nozzles just like the 6.2/6.5. Out of all the nozzles I measured, the long body 6.2s are my choice for my build. Most amount of lift, the needle is larger, and with some modifications to the pintle I believe the flow rate curve can be dialed in for a more performance application.
Click to expand...
So care to give us a part number for the ones that would be close to our electronic 6.5s?
 
i have to say i'm a little confused here,. first off i'm not sure if you are running an electronicly operated pump or a mechanicaly operated pump,. and i,m not sure what you mean when you say you have enough power,. but need more torque,.? the two go hand in hand. What is it about the power/torque curve you are looking to accomplish? do you want the engine to have better down low pickup? You do not have enough low rpm fuel delivery to spool the turbo? Is the boat difficult to get up onto plane? If so i would look either at increasing the pump output at low rpm,. or look at the exhaust diameter housing on the the turbo,. perhaps it needs a smaller exhaust housing for quicker spool up? are you running a map sensor to control boost? or a mechanical wastegate. Sorry if i am heading in the wrong direction here,.
 
It's a mechanical Bosch VE 6 pump. For sure power and torque go hand in hand but I don't need to take out all the power available, just peak tourque to justify a suitable propeller.
 
hamna said:
Bosch 0434250176 is the part number for DNOSD 314
Click to expand...
what I think everyone is asking is if the part number posted is the one for a suitable replacement for our electronic DS4 powered 6.5's

apparently the original Bosch nozzle is ether NLA or a needle in a hey stack to find over all the cheap Chinese junk that's out there now.
 
dbrannon79 said:
what I think everyone is asking is if the part number posted is the one for a suitable replacement for our electronic DS4 powered 6.5's

apparently the original Bosch nozzle is ether NLA or a needle in a hey stack to find over all the cheap Chinese junk that's out there now.
Click to expand...
Stanadyne nozzles are just as good and I was getting them for $50 each from my supplier. Haven't checked current prices in a while though.

I was out of town last week. I will try to dig up those part numbers for everyone
 
I would be hard pressed to see stanandye as good as the GERMAN bosch. Good as the India- ok. But those German nozzles we used to get twice the life and then half the time sonic cleaning (which was more rare back then) could get them almost new again.

Track 10 sets to 200,000 miles and retest- then I could feel better.

The original standyne were reliable to 125,000 miles, so we still swapped them at the 100k mark.

Now, modern manufacturing processes have improved- so it is very possible. I don’t wanna sound like a nay sayer- just a tad on the skeptical side. Thinking about it, idk many guys running them currently- do you have many set out there cranking out the miles?
 
Will L. said:
I would be hard pressed to see stanandye as good as the GERMAN bosch. Good as the India- ok. But those German nozzles we used to get twice the life and then half the time sonic cleaning (which was more rare back then) could get them almost new again.

Track 10 sets to 200,000 miles and retest- then I could feel better.

The original standyne were reliable to 125,000 miles, so we still swapped them at the 100k mark.

Now, modern manufacturing processes have improved- so it is very possible. I don’t wanna sound like a nay sayer- just a tad on the skeptical side. Thinking about it, idk many guys running them currently- do you have many set out there cranking out the miles?
Click to expand...
I have a few set out that are in use. All good feedback so far not enough mileage on them to see how long they are lasting.

I have a few sets of NOS military long body injectors with Delphi nozzles in them. Im curious how they hold up because that's all I can find for long bodies at the moment.
 
Here is a complete list of all the other injector nozzles that can work in 6.2/6.5 injector bodies. Unfortunately there is no way of know which ones or long or short by the part number or identification numbers. Long injector nozzles are 27mm in length and short injector nozzles are 22mm in length. So if you want to use them be aware you need to confirm the length of them will work for you application. I've measure a few of these and I decided to use 6.2 long injectors for my build. But if someone wants to try some of these I can put a set together for you.

A little break down of the ID numbers
D - Injection Nozzle
N - Pintle Type
0 - Spray angle in Degrees
S - Diameter (17mm)
D - Throttling type nozzle
### - ID number (pintle design and needle lift)

ALL IDI injectors are throttling type even the marine injectors, Quadstar is wrong in the description of marine injectors on their website.


Type# / Bosch#
DN0SD193 / 0 434 250 063
DN0SD1930 / 0 434 250 092
DN0SD256 / 0 434 250 135
DN0SD259 / 0 434 250 117
DN0SD261 / 0 434 250 120
DN0SD263 / 0 434 250 125
DN0SD264 / 0 434 250 127
DN0SD265 / 0 434 250 128
DN0SD273 / 0 434 250 138
DN0SD274 / 0 434 250 139
DN0SD287+/ 0 434 250 157
DN0SD288 / 0 434 250 150
DN0SD289 / 0 434 250 156
DN0SD292 / 0 434 250 154
DN0SD293 / 0 434 250 103
DN0SD294 / 0 434 250 155
DN0SD297 / 0 434 250 159
DN0SD299 / 0 434 250 160
DN0SD299A / 0 434 250 171
DN0SD299C / 0 434 250 193
DN0SD300 / 0 434 250 161
DN0SD301 / 0 434 250 162
DN0SD302 / 0 434 250 163
DN0SD302A / 0 434 250 175
DN0SD302B / 0 434 250 223
DN0SD306 / 0 434 250 167
DN0SD309 / 0 434 250 170
DN0SD310 / 0 434 250 897
DN0SD312 / 0 434 250 895
DN0SD313 / 0 434 250 174
DN0SD314 / 0 434 250 176
DN0SD315 / 0 434 250 177
DN0SD316 / 0 434 250 894
DN0SD318 / 0 434 250 191
DN0SD319 / 0 434 250 192
DN0SD320 / 0 434 250 224
DN0SD322 / 0 434 250 226
DN0SD327 / 0 434 250 234
 
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