cold air intake pick-up\k-47 air box

[turbonator]

well i have started to mod the pass. fender for our k-47 air box... i took a 4" hole saw and drilled a hole directly in the position where the airbox picks up the air from the factory restriction in the fender..( had fun pulling that garbage out...LOL) i welded the piece of 4" exhaust into the hole, and took a old body style gm mirror cover and cut it to fit over the pipe and welded in place.... those covers make a sweet louvre and its OEM pieces...LOL... i will hook up the air box and test it with the AEM filter we have on the N/A 6.2l to see if it makes a difference, then will test it with the 6.2l turbo motor we are building...... so in effect it is the first 6.2l N/A i have seen with the k-47 air box....:thumbsup:... also pics will follow...

 

[turbonator]

okay, here are some pics of the mod and install....:thumbsup: i got rained out, so when i get a chance to finish i will post up more pics and a word about the performance....:agreed:... also if you look at pic no. 4, you can see the hood pin on the pass. side since there is no more hood latch in the front...

 

[buddy]

Nice, that scoop should be far enough out into the airstream to grab the high pressure air, some ram air affect.

 

[OrionThade]

Seems like paveltolz did some wind-tunnel simulations that was an area with very little turbulent airflow. I'm sure it's definitely better than stock, but I'm skeptical that it will be as beneficial as you're hoping it will be. That said, the scope might make all the difference.

 

[buddy]

Yes, the streamers test pretty much showed that there wasnt significant air pressure on the skin of the truck. Thats why the scoop is essential to grab it out of the stream, which hopefully will have come back to within an inch of the skin in the few feet from the front edge. Ideally maybe we could relocate the parking light there and let the air go straight into the fender.

 

[DennisG01]

I seem to remember seeing some video (don't know if it was paveltolz, or not) regarding this. It was done with streamers at various distances off the fender. At normal highway speeds, there wasn't clear/smooth air flow until at least 8" off the fender. I'm trying to find that post, but haven't been successful, yet.

With a shallow scoop/vent, I honestly think it would be better to face it rearward to evacuate heat from the engine bay.

 

[DennisG01]

Found the thread (it was, indeed, paveltolz that tied the string to some brackets of varying distances off the fender): http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?21982-Fender-fresh-air-vent

Besides the findings that you need a scoop to get quite a distance from the fender, there's some very good reading material in there, Turbonator, if you have a few minutes.

Question: Would a "ram air" really have much of an effect (real world, not theory) on a turboed vehicle at 65MPH?

 

[buddy]

From the observed streamers, 5-6" was good, and the ones on the fender swung (were pulled) about 2-3" away from the fender before hitting the airstream boundry. So a 3-4" tall scoop would probably be ideal, but look a little goofy. You will still catch some air inbetween so that you would not have the potentially negative affect of the vent at high speed. What either will do though, is allow improved around town throttle response if cool air can be sucked in by the turbo or natural vacuum of the intake stroke.

 

[turbonator]

From the observed streamers, 5-6" was good, and the ones on the fender swung (were pulled) about 2-3" away from the fender before hitting the airstream boundry. So a 3-4" tall scoop would probably be ideal, but look a little goofy. You will still catch some air inbetween so that you would not have the potentially negative affect of the vent at high speed. What either will do though, is allow improved around town throttle response if cool air can be sucked in by the turbo or natural vacuum of the intake stroke.

the mod is all finished, i will post up a finished pic on the weekend, it pulls air good, i do not have IAT hooked up, but at idle i can feel the air going in, and even if it is not in the "wind-stream", i am sure that the air is cooler than the snorkle in the fender....i cant really say if it is a big difference, as the 6.2l NA has woorked it a$$ off this week pulling our trailer with 12500lbs... i can say that the first pull with the tranny cooler under the box almost ended in disaster as the cooler was not taking enough wind and we pegged the tranny gauge past 300F.... on the weekend my brother made a scoop for the cooler to pull more cool air onto it which made a huge difference... and i plumbed in a thermal switch to put a electric fan on... the switch will energize the fan at around 200-215F.... now just need to adresse the 280F engine oil temps:rolleyes5:

 

[turbonator]

the mod is all finished, i will post up a finished pic on the weekend, it pulls air good, i do not have IAT hooked up, but at idle i can feel the air going in, and even if it is not in the "wind-stream", i am sure that the air is cooler than the snorkle in the fender....i cant really say if it is a big difference, as the 6.2l NA has woorked it a$$ off this week pulling our trailer with 12500lbs... i can say that the first pull with the tranny cooler under the box almost ended in disaster as the cooler was not taking enough wind and we pegged the tranny gauge past 300F.... on the weekend my brother made a scoop for the cooler to pull more cool air onto it which made a huge difference... and i plumbed in a thermal switch to put a electric fan on... the switch will energize the fan at around 200-215F.... now just need to adresse the 280F engine oil temps:rolleyes5:

also as a side note, what do you guys use to measure IAT?

 

[turbonator]

Found the thread (it was, indeed, paveltolz that tied the string to some brackets of varying distances off the fender): http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?21982-Fender-fresh-air-vent

Besides the findings that you need a scoop to get quite a distance from the fender, there's some very good reading material in there, Turbonator, if you have a few minutes.

Question: Would a "ram air" really have much of an effect (real world, not theory) on a turboed vehicle at 65MPH?

yup, that was a good read.... lots of interesting ideas, some crazy good technical info too....

 

[Turbine Doc]

also as a side note, what do you guys use to measure IAT?

IAT (intake air temp) I use my scanner, for ambient temp OAT (outside air temp) air temp in the filter box which may be what you are asking about; I use one of those indoor/outdoor thermometers with wireless or wired remote sensor in the air box and master readout in the cab.

 

[buddy]

Jeff, what is the distance of the scoop from the fender? About 2 inches?

Where I believe ram air could help highway fuel efficiency, I think the ideal place for it is either on the leading edge of the hood or somewhere on the front. Putting the intake right behind the headlights, like relocating the battery would probably get you most of the way there. Then the air coming in the bumper nostril has easier path into the air filter, and could be pressurized if enclose the filter behind the headlight.

The fender mount scoop presents more challenges, although even just a couple inch tall scoop would likely do much better than the fender snorkle.

 

[turbonator]

Jeff, what is the distance of the scoop from the fender? About 2 inches?

Where I believe ram air could help highway fuel efficiency, I think the ideal place for it is either on the leading edge of the hood or somewhere on the front. Putting the intake right behind the headlights, like relocating the battery would probably get you most of the way there. Then the air coming in the bumper nostril has easier path into the air filter, and could be pressurized if enclose the filter behind the headlight.

The fender mount scoop presents more challenges, although even just a couple inch tall scoop would likely do much better than the fender snorkle.

yeah, it is about 2 inches off the surface... dont have real bumper nostrils on the truck, i cut 2 4" round holes in it, but no air diverter in there yet.... and turbine doc, i was meaning the actual air in the intake..... is it possible to use a manual water temp gauge to measure IAT, or will it be loads inaccurate? i seen a couple gauges on e-bay, but are pretty expensive$$$$$....LOL

 

[handcannon]

Jeff, what is the distance of the scoop from the fender? About 2 inches?

Where I believe ram air could help highway fuel efficiency, I think the ideal place for it is either on the leading edge of the hood or somewhere on the front. Putting the intake right behind the headlights, like relocating the battery would probably get you most of the way there. Then the air coming in the bumper nostril has easier path into the air filter, and could be pressurized if enclose the filter behind the headlight.

The fender mount scoop presents more challenges, although even just a couple inch tall scoop would likely do much better than the fender snorkle.

Interesting conclusions there buddy. I'm finding this discussion to be very interesting. This just reinforces something I've been rattling around in this empty head. I've been thinking about moving the turbo air intake to where the pass side batt currently is at and try to take advantage of the possible ram effect there.

I'm leaving for deer hunting next week. I hope I have the time to set this up for a trial before leaving. I'd be able to ditch the flat panel filter and use a gasser style "K47" box.

Don

 

[Turbine Doc]

I recently got one of Bill's cold air kits and am running it on my K1500 initial testing showing slight mpg improvement, batteries are dead in my remote temp sensor so no air box temp changes to report on yet.

I called him to ask about why with all work to design the kit, did it not combine ram air into the design as it seems intuitive to take advantage of it, & I told him I was going to fab up & add a am air component to my rig.

I caught him on the way out the door so he could not spend as much time as I wanted to discuss it, and then I got busy with work on my day/night job and did not get a chance to finish the discussion.

Basically he said it wasn't needed as the OEM flow thru the fender up & thru the passage under the front marker light was more than sufficient. More time needed with Bill once our schedules allow for a time to discuss it in depth.

Another thing on my to-do list is change oil & oil filters and start collecting baseline oil samples with filter new vs result over time to see if filter media is keeping silica levels as low as the Donnelson K-47 element was/is.

Good topic of discussion here though, gets the creative juices flowing

 

[Turbine Doc]

Jeff any consideration to a series of "baffles/dams" for air to go up & over/under in your duct tract to knock down any gross water intrusion, a slug of water won't be good for the turbo?

Especially since what I think I'm seeing is direct air from fender to air box; or are you just filling fender with ram air pressurization with a redirect of the K-47 box to not direct draw air directly across from the ram scoop area?

 

[buddy]

Some used to say how more than sufficient the flat panel air filters were, or even stock K47 paper filters, although people improve on them and there are gains to be had. There are few decisions made in vehilce design that are not compromises, or made to fit the intended purpose. IMHO, there are gains to be had from improving the air flow path, especially on an unthrottled diesel not worried about stoichiometry. There will always be differences of opinion, but if youre putting a larger turbo on for better flow, then I think it warrants consideration of better air charge input to improve upon that modification. If you've settled with the small stock turbo as being the best turbo for the application then the stock fender air draw probably is more than sufficient for your needs as well. I could agree with that, although at the same time recommend better flowing air box/filter.

I don't have the solution, there are hundred ways to skin this cat, and will agree that with the right air box/filter setup you are already pretty well set. Just would beleive you can still do better.

 

[Turbine Doc]

No disagreement here Buddy; seems counter intuitive to say ram isn't beneficial which is why I questioned Bill about it, I was just throwing out a different look at it. Possibly the cost to benefit ratio in a product at the retail level not warranted for extra cost to add in ram air ducting.

For gear heads doing their own thing at cheap labor eh... give it a whirl, as I'll probably also be adding ram ducting with doing with mine at some point pressurizing the fender mitigating some of water intrusion risk I think may be present.

 

[buddy]

An Jeff's is NA, so he is looking for whatever benefit he can squeeze out of it.